Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · 21st February 2017, 04:29 AM

Hi Jens,
Thank you for showing these fantastic images of the pommel disc interiors!
It seems that over the years the decorative motif on tulwar hilts has virtually always concentrated on the hilt overall, but without really looking into the designs inside the pommel disc. Your attention to this detail has been well established in that you have always included that key view in the examples in your collection, now gratefully published.

While we have been discussing the floral motif of the hilts, it seems that the inside of the pommel discs are typically a radiating theme in their circular shape. These examples show of course a solar theme, and given that they are of Rajasthan provenance, naturally this suggests Rajput examples.

The Rajput clans are incredibly complex, however rudimentarily they are of three basic lineages.
1. Suryavanshi: The solar, from Surya, Hindu god of the sun.
2.Chandravanshi: The lunar, from Chandra, god of the moon
3.Agnivanshi: The fire, from Agni, god of fire.

Salumbar is in the Udaipur District of Rajasthan, and primarily of the
Chundawat clan.

Ulwar was a princely state with primarily Naruka Rajputs.

While not being entirely clear on which of the three lineages these clans may be ascribed to, by the concept of the solar type motif in the discs, that of the first lineage would be implied.

So the questions would be;
Would the solar theme of suns rays be indicative of these Rajput clans?

How would the radiating rays of the solar theme be differentiated from the radiating design of flames (fire lineage)?

Are there lunar themed discs? Would these have crescents or varying moon phases?

Leaving the Rajput orientation, how would pommel discs of other regions, other groups, be decorated, and what symbolism might we find in those cases?

In the case of solar representation for example, as here, there are more numerous smaller shorter 'rays' and others longer and less in number.
Would this signify different clans of the same lineage, or might this simply be aesthetic representation of same symbolism in accord with regional or clan preference?

A lot of questions, but as the pommel discs seem to not necessarily follow the same theme as the floral motif (or perhaps some do) it would seem that we need to look into the wider scope of these pommel disc decorations.

21st February 2017, 04:29 AM	#68
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,135	Hi Jens, Thank you for showing these fantastic images of the pommel disc interiors! It seems that over the years the decorative motif on tulwar hilts has virtually always concentrated on the hilt overall, but without really looking into the designs inside the pommel disc. Your attention to this detail has been well established in that you have always included that key view in the examples in your collection, now gratefully published. While we have been discussing the floral motif of the hilts, it seems that the inside of the pommel discs are typically a radiating theme in their circular shape. These examples show of course a solar theme, and given that they are of Rajasthan provenance, naturally this suggests Rajput examples. The Rajput clans are incredibly complex, however rudimentarily they are of three basic lineages. 1. Suryavanshi: The solar, from Surya, Hindu god of the sun. 2.Chandravanshi: The lunar, from Chandra, god of the moon 3.Agnivanshi: The fire, from Agni, god of fire. Salumbar is in the Udaipur District of Rajasthan, and primarily of the Chundawat clan. Ulwar was a princely state with primarily Naruka Rajputs. While not being entirely clear on which of the three lineages these clans may be ascribed to, by the concept of the solar type motif in the discs, that of the first lineage would be implied. So the questions would be; Would the solar theme of suns rays be indicative of these Rajput clans? How would the radiating rays of the solar theme be differentiated from the radiating design of flames (fire lineage)? Are there lunar themed discs? Would these have crescents or varying moon phases? Leaving the Rajput orientation, how would pommel discs of other regions, other groups, be decorated, and what symbolism might we find in those cases? In the case of solar representation for example, as here, there are more numerous smaller shorter 'rays' and others longer and less in number. Would this signify different clans of the same lineage, or might this simply be aesthetic representation of same symbolism in accord with regional or clan preference? A lot of questions, but as the pommel discs seem to not necessarily follow the same theme as the floral motif (or perhaps some do) it would seem that we need to look into the wider scope of these pommel disc decorations.