Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 13th October 2016, 09:26 AM

[QUOTE=Jim McDougall]Hi Teodor,
Very well made points, and agreed that often cases of trying to trace the developments of various forms can be tenuous as examining certain clues and nuances seek the possible origins of influences.

The key issue of that distinct scabbard flare has been an almost taunting factor to me as long as I have studied these swords of Africa. The fact that this feature appears as noted, almost invariably on the kaskaras of Sudan, but nowhere else in African sword scabbards....EXCEPT in Mali, with the Manding sabre.

So in these years, there has much speculation on what in the world this flared end means, and of course the most obvious suggestion is that it is the head of a crocodile (or snake would be also thought of as they are also seen in local motif in cases). I have seen notes of this feature on more ancient iconography which of course predates kaskara by more than centuries, but was on an edged weapon scabbard, but even this was inconclusive. I need to find the notes but it was I think a frieze of a king of Meroe with sword .

To me it seems that this notable feature is most likely meant to symbolize something, such as the crocodile head since such symbolism is of course key in the material culture and folk religions/traditions of these regional cultures. But why would it be present in Sudanese context, yet did not effect the sword cultures of the Sahara and beyond while blades, and many other characteristics did? Again, EXCEPT Mali .

In my comments on the possible influence of Omani traders on the Manding, I was inclear on the nature of that plausibility. I did not mean that Omani traders, in person, were present in these areas to the west and of course not as far as West Africa itself. What I meant is that the trade networks were the conduit in which influences are diffused, and these vast connections are relays where interactions carrying them take place.

To the Omani, these open hilt swords were primarily status oriented, much as the khanjhar daggers. That the importance of these swords was probably notably taunted to other traders in these networks must be strongly considered. While slaving was one of the key commodities as these networks moved from Zanzibar inland and northward, we cannot imagine that groups of slaves travelled such distances across the Sahara. However, as these routes entered various entrepots and centers goods etc were exchanged with the those of caravans from the west at these points, weapons and their forms etc. would catch the interest of those individuals.

Hello Jim, This could indeed be influenced by the crocodile... Please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12707

Often descriptions appear as leaf shaped but I find scant evidence of this, ...however, I have to say that the leaf shaped or Rumi name was adopted for the African spear which was a massive broad leaf shaped spear... leaf shaped rather like the kaskara scabbard shape ..( Rumi of Rome) Rumi went on to be an adopted name for the Abu Futila...probably the gun which eventually saw the demise of the spear..though in this case to do with the distance idea that a spear could be thrown... and the distance a bullet could be fired...thus the link.

Although Mendinka scabbards are both the broad and normal shape it would seem to me that the broad version was a late copy onto these blades... from kaskara style.

13th October 2016, 09:26 AM	#22
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Crocodile Scabbard. [QUOTE=Jim McDougall]Hi Teodor, Very well made points, and agreed that often cases of trying to trace the developments of various forms can be tenuous as examining certain clues and nuances seek the possible origins of influences. The key issue of that distinct scabbard flare has been an almost taunting factor to me as long as I have studied these swords of Africa. The fact that this feature appears as noted, almost invariably on the kaskaras of Sudan, but nowhere else in African sword scabbards....EXCEPT in Mali, with the Manding sabre. So in these years, there has much speculation on what in the world this flared end means, and of course the most obvious suggestion is that it is the head of a crocodile (or snake would be also thought of as they are also seen in local motif in cases). I have seen notes of this feature on more ancient iconography which of course predates kaskara by more than centuries, but was on an edged weapon scabbard, but even this was inconclusive. I need to find the notes but it was I think a frieze of a king of Meroe with sword . To me it seems that this notable feature is most likely meant to symbolize something, such as the crocodile head since such symbolism is of course key in the material culture and folk religions/traditions of these regional cultures. But why would it be present in Sudanese context, yet did not effect the sword cultures of the Sahara and beyond while blades, and many other characteristics did? Again, EXCEPT Mali . In my comments on the possible influence of Omani traders on the Manding, I was inclear on the nature of that plausibility. I did not mean that Omani traders, in person, were present in these areas to the west and of course not as far as West Africa itself. What I meant is that the trade networks were the conduit in which influences are diffused, and these vast connections are relays where interactions carrying them take place. To the Omani, these open hilt swords were primarily status oriented, much as the khanjhar daggers. That the importance of these swords was probably notably taunted to other traders in these networks must be strongly considered. While slaving was one of the key commodities as these networks moved from Zanzibar inland and northward, we cannot imagine that groups of slaves travelled such distances across the Sahara. However, as these routes entered various entrepots and centers goods etc were exchanged with the those of caravans from the west at these points, weapons and their forms etc. would catch the interest of those individuals. Hello Jim, This could indeed be influenced by the crocodile... Please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12707 Often descriptions appear as leaf shaped but I find scant evidence of this, ...however, I have to say that the leaf shaped or Rumi name was adopted for the African spear which was a massive broad leaf shaped spear... leaf shaped rather like the kaskara scabbard shape ..( Rumi of Rome) Rumi went on to be an adopted name for the Abu Futila...probably the gun which eventually saw the demise of the spear..though in this case to do with the distance idea that a spear could be thrown... and the distance a bullet could be fired...thus the link. Although Mendinka scabbards are both the broad and normal shape it would seem to me that the broad version was a late copy onto these blades... from kaskara style.