Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · 25th November 2011, 05:20 AM

I was glad to see Michael in on this and on the majescule 'P' which as he has noted was used quite widely. The crowned P was used in Spain and apparantly by a number of makers, as Sir James Mann (1962, "The Wallace Collection" p.345) notes, as the name Pedro was fairly common. Solingen swordsmiths, in thier well known application of spurious Spanish marks used this poincon considerably along with others.
The Gothic 'P' is seen without cartouche on the forte of a katzbalger c.1500-10.

I did check Boccia & Coelho and the exact match to this bill/ bisarma/roncone polearm is found in the silhouette plate of typology (tavola B, #8) which does mot specify term or date range. It does seem similar variants in Italy range c.1540-1610 with most variation in the vertical spike (dente) on the back mid-blade....some with a lunette style feature instead. Similar examples are in the Wallace Collection in London (A929, A930) listed as 'bills', both Italian one 16th c. the other c.1540.

The majescule P with crown is found in Gyngell (p.74) as Italian, 16th c.
It seems most of these are from North Italy, Venice especially, and more decorative used in ceremonial guard type weapons.

The P without cartouche might be from the Pogl workshop as Michael mentioned as the period is right.

25th November 2011, 05:20 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,177	I was glad to see Michael in on this and on the majescule 'P' which as he has noted was used quite widely. The crowned P was used in Spain and apparantly by a number of makers, as Sir James Mann (1962, "The Wallace Collection" p.345) notes, as the name Pedro was fairly common. Solingen swordsmiths, in thier well known application of spurious Spanish marks used this poincon considerably along with others. The Gothic 'P' is seen without cartouche on the forte of a katzbalger c.1500-10. I did check Boccia & Coelho and the exact match to this bill/ bisarma/roncone polearm is found in the silhouette plate of typology (tavola B, #8) which does mot specify term or date range. It does seem similar variants in Italy range c.1540-1610 with most variation in the vertical spike (dente) on the back mid-blade....some with a lunette style feature instead. Similar examples are in the Wallace Collection in London (A929, A930) listed as 'bills', both Italian one 16th c. the other c.1540. The majescule P with crown is found in Gyngell (p.74) as Italian, 16th c. It seems most of these are from North Italy, Venice especially, and more decorative used in ceremonial guard type weapons. The P without cartouche might be from the Pogl workshop as Michael mentioned as the period is right.