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VANDOO · 12th October 2011, 08:40 PM

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

A DIFFICULT QUESTION TO BE SURE.
MORE MODERN WEAPONS ARE OF COURSE MUCH EASIER TO IDENTIFY AND PLACE AN AGE TO ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE MILATARY ISSUE AND NUMEROUS. THE ONES WITH A DATE STAMPED IN THE BLADE ARE ESPECIALLY HELPFUL

MANY EUROPEAN WEAPONS CAN BE PLACED THRU WRITTEN HISTORY AND WELL PROVENANCED EXAMPLES IN MUSEUMS.
ETHINOGRAPHIC WEAPONS BECOME MUCH MORE DIFFICULT, OFTEN IT IS EVEN UNKNOWN AS TO WHEN STEEL ARRIVED THRU TRADE IN AN AREA. IN SUCH CASES WE ONLY HAVE INFORMATION AS TO WHEN THE FIRST KNOWN CONTACT WAS MADE FOR EXAMPLE WHEN CAPTIAN COOK FIRST VISITED THE HAWAIIAN ISLANDS. WEAPONS COLLECTED AND DOCUMENTED ON THAT VOYAGE WOULD BE THE OLDEST BUT WHO KNOWS HOW LONG THEY HAD BEEN IN USE OR HOW OLD OR NEW THE EXAMPLES COLLECTED WERE AT THE TIME. BUT USUALLY WHO WAS FIRST IS UNKNOWN, PHONECIANS, VIKINGS, GREEKS OR EVEN ATLANTEANS MAY HAVE ARRIVED AND GONE LEAVING NO TRACE.

UNFORTUNATELY MUSEUMS SELDOM HAVE A COLLECTION SPANNING MANY YEARS OF A CULTURE. THIS WOULD HAVE SHOWN CHANGES IN FORM, WORKMANSHIP AND MATERIALS IN WEAPONS AS THEY EVOLVED AND WOULD HAVE BEEN A INVALUABLE RESOURCE FOR DATEING ARTEFACTS. ANOTHER FAILING IS OFTEN ONLY THE MOST IMPRESSIVE EXAMPLES WERE COLLECTED AND THE MORE COMMON FORMS IGNORED IN MUSEUM COLLECTIONS. SOME OLD COLLECTORS LIVING IN AN AREA MAY HAVE HAD COLLECTIONS SPANNING SEVERAL YEARS BUT USUALLY THE INFORMATION AND COLLECTIONS WERE LOST WHEN THE GRIM REAPER OVERTOOK THEM.
THAT IS ONE OF THE BEST THINGS ABOUT THIS FORUM, IF WE SHARE DATA IT PRESERVES WHAT LITTLE KNOWLEGE WE POSSESS AS WE OLDER COLLECTORS VANISH. SO MUCH HAS BEEN LOST JUST IN MY SHORT TIME COLLECTING SO THE LOSS IS IMEASURABLE THRUOUT HISTORY.

IN MOST AREAS WE HAVE NO RECORDS SHOWING WHEN TRADE STARTED OR WHEN DIFFERENT WAVES OF PEOPLE IMMIGRATED INTO THE AREA. SO UNTIL THE TIME MACHINE IS INVENTED WE ARE ADRIFT IN A SEA OF ????.
AS MENTIONED JUDGEING PATINA, MATERIALS, WORKMANSHIP AS WELL AS LOOKING UP DATED EXAMPLES WITH GOOD PROVENANCE IN MUSEUMS OR COLLECTIONS FOR COMPARISON IS THE BEST WE CAN CURRENTLY DO.
CARBON DATEING IS NOT VERY ACCURATE AND MANY THINGS CAN CONTAMINATE IT AND THROW IT OFF AND IT IS DESTRUCTIVE SO IS NOT A LOT OF HELP IN MANY CASES. THERE IS A NEWER METHOD BEING TRIED OUT INVOLVING LAZERS BUT IT IS AS YET NOT PROVEN AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT WORKS ON STEEL OR IRON.

12th October 2011, 08:40 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	WELCOME TO THE FORUM A DIFFICULT QUESTION TO BE SURE. MORE MODERN WEAPONS ARE OF COURSE MUCH EASIER TO IDENTIFY AND PLACE AN AGE TO ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE MILATARY ISSUE AND NUMEROUS. THE ONES WITH A DATE STAMPED IN THE BLADE ARE ESPECIALLY HELPFUL MANY EUROPEAN WEAPONS CAN BE PLACED THRU WRITTEN HISTORY AND WELL PROVENANCED EXAMPLES IN MUSEUMS. ETHINOGRAPHIC WEAPONS BECOME MUCH MORE DIFFICULT, OFTEN IT IS EVEN UNKNOWN AS TO WHEN STEEL ARRIVED THRU TRADE IN AN AREA. IN SUCH CASES WE ONLY HAVE INFORMATION AS TO WHEN THE FIRST KNOWN CONTACT WAS MADE FOR EXAMPLE WHEN CAPTIAN COOK FIRST VISITED THE HAWAIIAN ISLANDS. WEAPONS COLLECTED AND DOCUMENTED ON THAT VOYAGE WOULD BE THE OLDEST BUT WHO KNOWS HOW LONG THEY HAD BEEN IN USE OR HOW OLD OR NEW THE EXAMPLES COLLECTED WERE AT THE TIME. BUT USUALLY WHO WAS FIRST IS UNKNOWN, PHONECIANS, VIKINGS, GREEKS OR EVEN ATLANTEANS MAY HAVE ARRIVED AND GONE LEAVING NO TRACE. UNFORTUNATELY MUSEUMS SELDOM HAVE A COLLECTION SPANNING MANY YEARS OF A CULTURE. THIS WOULD HAVE SHOWN CHANGES IN FORM, WORKMANSHIP AND MATERIALS IN WEAPONS AS THEY EVOLVED AND WOULD HAVE BEEN A INVALUABLE RESOURCE FOR DATEING ARTEFACTS. ANOTHER FAILING IS OFTEN ONLY THE MOST IMPRESSIVE EXAMPLES WERE COLLECTED AND THE MORE COMMON FORMS IGNORED IN MUSEUM COLLECTIONS. SOME OLD COLLECTORS LIVING IN AN AREA MAY HAVE HAD COLLECTIONS SPANNING SEVERAL YEARS BUT USUALLY THE INFORMATION AND COLLECTIONS WERE LOST WHEN THE GRIM REAPER OVERTOOK THEM. THAT IS ONE OF THE BEST THINGS ABOUT THIS FORUM, IF WE SHARE DATA IT PRESERVES WHAT LITTLE KNOWLEGE WE POSSESS AS WE OLDER COLLECTORS VANISH. SO MUCH HAS BEEN LOST JUST IN MY SHORT TIME COLLECTING SO THE LOSS IS IMEASURABLE THRUOUT HISTORY. IN MOST AREAS WE HAVE NO RECORDS SHOWING WHEN TRADE STARTED OR WHEN DIFFERENT WAVES OF PEOPLE IMMIGRATED INTO THE AREA. SO UNTIL THE TIME MACHINE IS INVENTED WE ARE ADRIFT IN A SEA OF ????. AS MENTIONED JUDGEING PATINA, MATERIALS, WORKMANSHIP AS WELL AS LOOKING UP DATED EXAMPLES WITH GOOD PROVENANCE IN MUSEUMS OR COLLECTIONS FOR COMPARISON IS THE BEST WE CAN CURRENTLY DO. CARBON DATEING IS NOT VERY ACCURATE AND MANY THINGS CAN CONTAMINATE IT AND THROW IT OFF AND IT IS DESTRUCTIVE SO IS NOT A LOT OF HELP IN MANY CASES. THERE IS A NEWER METHOD BEING TRIED OUT INVOLVING LAZERS BUT IT IS AS YET NOT PROVEN AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT WORKS ON STEEL OR IRON.