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Jim McDougall · 9th July 2011, 10:55 PM

Richard, in doing more research on this, I am noticing that the shield that appears with the arms of the Board of Ordnance was granted in 1806, and not officially granted until 1823. The period of use of these rather rare hilt style sabres seems to fall into the period suggested here, c.1790 with those used by officers of the 10th Light Dragoons (used until about 1804) and the only other unit Robson notes having these, the 30th Light Dragoons (1794-96).

I am wondering if the Board of Ordnance would have been using these armorial bearings as early as the 1793 date set for the origin of the first troops of Royal Horse Artillery. Perhaps as is often the case, the arms may have already been prescribed as seen pending official transaction.While it seems that it would be difficult to say which of these original RHA officers this might have belonged to, it does suggest that this sabre may well be an anomaly custom made for one of them reflecting one of these units.

After 1796 and the introduction of the new light cavalry sabres designated in that year, Robson notes that the troopers would carry these pattern sabres 'as needed'. Around 1806, the officers of the 10th Hussars were presented with a new design for thier sabres which superceded the earlier style hilt, and these were produced in small number c.1806-1810 I believe.

I had not realized how distinctly rare this pattern hilt was, and quite honestly have never heard it referred to as the 'coffin pattern'. Richard, can you specify the source or more on the term and more on the history of these hilts? Robson is notably vague on the pattern and whether these were the only units who received them etc.

Interestingly, the maker of this sword, John Knubley, was active as primarily a gunmaker but took over from Thomas Gill at 11 Charing Cross in 1786 where he remained active until 1792, then moving to 7 Charing Cross in 1792, where he continued until 1794. He died in 1795. In Robson, the sword with this hilt pattern to the 30th Light Dragoons has a blade by Thomas Gill. As I earlier noted, Thomas Gill's sword's seemed to reflect distinct German style features, and I wonder if perhaps he might have been somehow instrumental in the design of this type hilt.
Whatever the case, the sword must be dated of course c.1793-94.

All best regards,
Jim

9th July 2011, 10:55 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,100	Richard, in doing more research on this, I am noticing that the shield that appears with the arms of the Board of Ordnance was granted in 1806, and not officially granted until 1823. The period of use of these rather rare hilt style sabres seems to fall into the period suggested here, c.1790 with those used by officers of the 10th Light Dragoons (used until about 1804) and the only other unit Robson notes having these, the 30th Light Dragoons (1794-96). I am wondering if the Board of Ordnance would have been using these armorial bearings as early as the 1793 date set for the origin of the first troops of Royal Horse Artillery. Perhaps as is often the case, the arms may have already been prescribed as seen pending official transaction.While it seems that it would be difficult to say which of these original RHA officers this might have belonged to, it does suggest that this sabre may well be an anomaly custom made for one of them reflecting one of these units. After 1796 and the introduction of the new light cavalry sabres designated in that year, Robson notes that the troopers would carry these pattern sabres 'as needed'. Around 1806, the officers of the 10th Hussars were presented with a new design for thier sabres which superceded the earlier style hilt, and these were produced in small number c.1806-1810 I believe. I had not realized how distinctly rare this pattern hilt was, and quite honestly have never heard it referred to as the 'coffin pattern'. Richard, can you specify the source or more on the term and more on the history of these hilts? Robson is notably vague on the pattern and whether these were the only units who received them etc. Interestingly, the maker of this sword, John Knubley, was active as primarily a gunmaker but took over from Thomas Gill at 11 Charing Cross in 1786 where he remained active until 1792, then moving to 7 Charing Cross in 1792, where he continued until 1794. He died in 1795. In Robson, the sword with this hilt pattern to the 30th Light Dragoons has a blade by Thomas Gill. As I earlier noted, Thomas Gill's sword's seemed to reflect distinct German style features, and I wonder if perhaps he might have been somehow instrumental in the design of this type hilt. Whatever the case, the sword must be dated of course c.1793-94. All best regards, Jim Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 9th July 2011 at 11:10 PM.