Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - A Very Interesting Kriss...But Where From??

CharlesS · 15th April 2011, 03:59 PM

Gustav,

Yes, this piece had the ivory restored(in combination with what was still there) at the collar or mouth of the scabbard.

I agree...though Indonesian kerises are not my specialty...this is not a Balinese blade, though at first glance it has a smooth finish like some Balinese blades...when you actually feel it, is is not smooth. Nothing else, other than perhaps the size, suggests Balinese in my mind, even in my limited knowledge of that subject.

Kai,

I couldn't agree more on the Malay association, but to say there is absolutely no Moro influence here, then we will have to agree to disagree. I am not familar with any other Malay or Indonesian weapon with this hilt style(pommel....wrapped handle...with rings). I think the initial appearance(of the hilt alone) is Moro even if upon closer inspection it clearly is not Moro made. If you want to say that the Malay sundang is a separate style of weapon from the Moro kriss, then that becomes another argument altogether, one that raises the ire of some Moro collectors. I got into exactly that conversation with collectors in Baltimore, with no concensus.

The baca baca is attached to the hilt.

David,

The flash and my poor lighting betray the patina to the ivory and wood and even the cord wrap. My pics make it look "gleaming" when it is not. There is no doubt it has some real age on it, and is not a dyed or "shoepolish" job.

This is definitely not a combat weapon, even though it is beautifully balanced. Actually, I wonder if it was ever even meant to be taken out of the the scabbard, but the patina to the ivory hilt and the upper portion of the scabbard makes it clear that it has been well handled. Again, I think this is some sort of status piece, or perhaps even presentation piece, but having handled it, it is definitely too much invested in "weapons art" to be remotely associated with anything cheap or touristy.

15th April 2011, 03:59 PM	#7
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Gustav, Yes, this piece had the ivory restored(in combination with what was still there) at the collar or mouth of the scabbard. I agree...though Indonesian kerises are not my specialty...this is not a Balinese blade, though at first glance it has a smooth finish like some Balinese blades...when you actually feel it, is is not smooth. Nothing else, other than perhaps the size, suggests Balinese in my mind, even in my limited knowledge of that subject. Kai, I couldn't agree more on the Malay association, but to say there is absolutely no Moro influence here, then we will have to agree to disagree. I am not familar with any other Malay or Indonesian weapon with this hilt style(pommel....wrapped handle...with rings). I think the initial appearance(of the hilt alone) is Moro even if upon closer inspection it clearly is not Moro made. If you want to say that the Malay sundang is a separate style of weapon from the Moro kriss, then that becomes another argument altogether, one that raises the ire of some Moro collectors. I got into exactly that conversation with collectors in Baltimore, with no concensus. The baca baca is attached to the hilt. David, The flash and my poor lighting betray the patina to the ivory and wood and even the cord wrap. My pics make it look "gleaming" when it is not. There is no doubt it has some real age on it, and is not a dyed or "shoepolish" job. This is definitely not a combat weapon, even though it is beautifully balanced. Actually, I wonder if it was ever even meant to be taken out of the the scabbard, but the patina to the ivory hilt and the upper portion of the scabbard makes it clear that it has been well handled. Again, I think this is some sort of status piece, or perhaps even presentation piece, but having handled it, it is definitely too much invested in "weapons art" to be remotely associated with anything cheap or touristy.