Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · 27th November 2010, 04:53 PM

Emanuel, its always great when you come in with these flyssas, and as always I am completely captivated by the often subtle variations in these distinctive motifs. It really is hard to imagine how much is talismanic and how much has become simply traditionally thematic.

In all the years we have discussed the flyssa, it seems we have never really determined how these were used, just as mentioned here in the posts. I have always thought of these as awkwardly balanced, but that they must have been produced as they consistantly are for a reason. Obviously, if not being handled as intended, they would of course feel ill balanced, and clearly the longer examples are the most likely to seem so.

There are as far as I know, few who have collected and studied the flyssa with the tenacity you have, and I always look forward to the new examples and discoveries you make. I have often wondered if there might be French narratives from the occupation in Saharan regions which perhaps may have some descriptions of these in use. I know one of the earliest provenanced examples I ever located was in the French Foreign Legion museum in France, and was captured in battle with Kabyles in 1857, but no details other than a photo were sent. As often the case, it is difficult to carry out in depth queries with French officials with the language barrier, at least in my experience. I am always grateful for those here who generously help with translations.

It seems in most cases, the flyssa is described as a cavalry weapon, but if I understand correctly, Kabyle regions are largely highly terrained, and would seem unlikely for cavalry actions except on certain plained regions. The illustrations as noted are usually of infantry type forces. If this weapon were used as a lance, there is no protection or stop for the hand, and if I perceive correctly, the penetration would effectively disarm the one using it. Again, with my limited understanding of martial techniques, perhaps my explanation is simplistic.

The slashing use seems understandable, and the terrible balance might not seem as pertinant if momentum would compensate, but then why the needle point so typical on these, and presumed for armor piercing through mail ?

Well, these are the same questions I always drag out, but cant resist bringing up again

Thanks again for showing these great examples Emanuel, as always beautifully done!!!

All the best,
Jim

27th November 2010, 04:53 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,100	Emanuel, its always great when you come in with these flyssas, and as always I am completely captivated by the often subtle variations in these distinctive motifs. It really is hard to imagine how much is talismanic and how much has become simply traditionally thematic. In all the years we have discussed the flyssa, it seems we have never really determined how these were used, just as mentioned here in the posts. I have always thought of these as awkwardly balanced, but that they must have been produced as they consistantly are for a reason. Obviously, if not being handled as intended, they would of course feel ill balanced, and clearly the longer examples are the most likely to seem so. There are as far as I know, few who have collected and studied the flyssa with the tenacity you have, and I always look forward to the new examples and discoveries you make. I have often wondered if there might be French narratives from the occupation in Saharan regions which perhaps may have some descriptions of these in use. I know one of the earliest provenanced examples I ever located was in the French Foreign Legion museum in France, and was captured in battle with Kabyles in 1857, but no details other than a photo were sent. As often the case, it is difficult to carry out in depth queries with French officials with the language barrier, at least in my experience. I am always grateful for those here who generously help with translations. It seems in most cases, the flyssa is described as a cavalry weapon, but if I understand correctly, Kabyle regions are largely highly terrained, and would seem unlikely for cavalry actions except on certain plained regions. The illustrations as noted are usually of infantry type forces. If this weapon were used as a lance, there is no protection or stop for the hand, and if I perceive correctly, the penetration would effectively disarm the one using it. Again, with my limited understanding of martial techniques, perhaps my explanation is simplistic. The slashing use seems understandable, and the terrible balance might not seem as pertinant if momentum would compensate, but then why the needle point so typical on these, and presumed for armor piercing through mail ? Well, these are the same questions I always drag out, but cant resist bringing up again Thanks again for showing these great examples Emanuel, as always beautifully done!!! All the best, Jim