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-   -   Moro kris (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=30378)

Maurice 28th December 2024 05:21 PM

Moro kris
 
6 Attachment(s)
Hi,

Here my latest find, an old moro kris.
The kris has a wavy laminated blade, and a seperate 'ganja'.
Also it has one silver clamp, on top held by a seperate piece of brass which continues in an angle along the tang under the silverwork.
It has a rather small (older type) wooden cockatoo pommel, and plaited silver 'wickerwork'. The wooden piece under the plaited silver (the grip/handle) is unfortunately broken, so the pommel is slightly moving and it doesn't have a firm grip when handling.
Probably the scabbard is not as old as the kris, and doesn't have a nice fit on top. The scabbard is also somewhat 'oversized' for the blade of the kris. It has a horn endpiece, mother of pearl inlaid 'star', and the rattan strokes (old rattan bands that were cut in length to fit around the scabbard) were glued on the scabbard by a former owner.
The length of the kris is 615mm (120mm hilt, and 495mm blade).
The total length of the kris in the scabbard is 755mm.


Any comments about age, origin or other info about the kris and scabbard are most welcome.

(PS I cleaned the silverwork only very superficial, as I like it that it shows age. It was rather black when I got it).

Kind regards,
Maurice

David R 28th December 2024 06:06 PM

Nice one!

Sajen 29th December 2024 11:07 AM

Hi Maurice,

Very nice kris, congrats! I think it comes from Mindanao and as age I would guess middle of the 19th century. But we have more knowledgeable people here than me.

Regards,
Detlef

Maurice 29th December 2024 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David R (Post 294967)
Nice one!

Thank you!

Maurice 29th December 2024 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen (Post 294977)
Hi Maurice,

Very nice kris, congrats! I think it comes from Mindanao and as age I would guess middle of the 19th century. But we have more knowledgeable people here than me.

Regards,
Detlef

Hi Detlef,

Thank you for responding! I totally agree with you concerning mid 1800's age.
About origin I don't know. What are the 'triggers' for you to think it's from Mindanao?
I hope the more knowledgeable people will respond too, to confirm age and origin also.

Kind regards,
Maurice

Sajen 29th December 2024 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice (Post 294979)
What are the 'triggers' for you to think it's from Mindanao?

Hi Maurice,

Mainly the scabbard and the elephant trunk area of the blade.

Regards,
Detlef

Maurice 29th December 2024 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen (Post 294982)
Hi Maurice,

Mainly the scabbard and the elephant trunk area of the blade.

Regards,
Detlef

Thank you Detlef for the clarification.
I need to re-read Robert Cato's book, which I bought about 20 years ago, and stored on our attic somewhere...:eek:

Kind regards,
Maurice

Ian 31st December 2024 01:30 PM

Hello Maurice,

Interesting kris you show. I think there are some style features that reflect different Moro groups, but mainly Sulu. The blade has shallow waves and is not very long (~19.5 in.). The shallow waves suggest second half of the 19th C, but the somewhat short blade would be consistent with a little earlier. So mid- to late-19th C seems about right.

The shallow waves suggest a possible Sulu origin because my own research has found that such blades are more commonly in Sulu dress than Mindanao, at least on the examples I have found from various sources on the internet.

The elephant trunk area is consistent with some older Sulu kris. I can see why Detlef thought it might be Maranao/Mindanao because of the slight bulge to the gandhik, but Maranao "tusks" are horizontal while this one is tilted down somewhat. Nevertheless, Detlef could be correct. The engraved asang asang is usually a Maranao trait but is seen also on a few Sulu kris.

The diminutive kakatua pommel with side panels is found widely on Moro kris during the 19th C, including Sulu and Mindanao examples. This small style seems to have been favored on combat weapons rather than weapons to display your self-importance. A small pommel likely had some practical value.

The grip of the hilt is mostly in a basket-weave pattern, and I believe this style is mainly used on Sulu kris. The silver wire work looks oversize for the rest of the hilt (especially the pommel), and I suspect it was a replacement.The break to the wooden core of the grip is a fairly common finding. I have several examples. Perhaps the silver wire wrap was intended to provide some splinting for the break.

The scabbard is a later replacement from the 20th C when MOP inlays were fashionable, especially post WWII. You note that the kris does not fit very well in the scabbard and I suspect that it was not made for this sword.

Overall, this looks a well made kris for someone of modest wealth. It was made for use and not for show, although the addition of the silver wrap to the hilt may have been for bling as well as function.

Maurice 4th January 2025 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 295023)
Hello Maurice,

Interesting kris you show. I think there are some style features that reflect different Moro groups, but mainly Sulu. The blade has shallow waves and is not very long (~19.5 in.). The shallow waves suggest second half of the 19th C, but the somewhat short blade would be consistent with a little earlier. So mid- to late-19th C seems about right.

Hello Ian,

thank you for adding your expertise on my moro kris. Good to now that the features probably tend towards Sulu, and the kris is about 160 years old.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 295023)
The shallow waves suggest a possible Sulu origin because my own research has found that such blades are more commonly in Sulu dress than Mindanao, at least on the examples I have found from various sources on the internet.

The elephant trunk area is consistent with some older Sulu kris. I can see why Detlef thought it might be Maranao/Mindanao because of the slight bulge to the gandhik, but Maranao "tusks" are horizontal while this one is tilted down somewhat. Nevertheless, Detlef could be correct. The engraved asang asang is usually a Maranao trait but is seen also on a few Sulu kris.

Ok, I will add this information in my database concerning this kris. I handled not enough moro krisses and didn't study them well to come to these conclusions. So therefore your info is of great value to me. I have seen engraved silver 'asang asang' before on (what I thought) was a Sulu kris. It also had a diminutive 'kakatua' pommel like this, and also silver woven bands around the handle.
How can I differentiate 'shallow waves' from 'deeper waves'?



Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 295023)
The diminutive kakatua pommel with side panels is found widely on Moro kris during the 19th C, including Sulu and Mindanao examples. This small style seems to have been favored on combat weapons rather than weapons to display your self-importance. A small pommel likely had some practical value.

I can imagine that larger pommels could not be very convenient and 'userfriendly' when in a combat, though the Yungayan types of pommels are huge, they still where made for the real deal (though a bit clumsy).



Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 295023)
The grip of the hilt is mostly in a basket-weave pattern, and I believe this style is mainly used on Sulu kris. The silver wire work looks oversize for the rest of the hilt (especially the pommel), and I suspect it was a replacement.The break to the wooden core of the grip is a fairly common finding. I have several examples. Perhaps the silver wire wrap was intended to provide some splinting for the break.

That's something I could remember from Cato's work about the silver wire work being Sulu specialty. I'm not ure that the silver wire wrap was intended to provide some splinting for the beak. I could imagine that when they removed the fiber binding, they would not replace it for silver wire without repairing the broken handle itself. And also I've seen silver wired moro kris handles without broken handles, but with a similar diminutive pommel like this one.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 295023)
The scabbard is a later replacement from the 20th C when MOP inlays were fashionable, especially post WWII. You note that the kris does not fit very well in the scabbard and I suspect that it was not made for this sword.

Yes, that is what I thought also. Probably not made for this sword because of the bad fit, but added somewhere in the middle of the 20th century, or matched more recent with a 20thC scabbard.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 295023)
Overall, this looks a well made kris for someone of modest wealth. It was made for use and not for show, although the addition of the silver wrap to the hilt may have been for bling as well as function.

I'm glad with your expertise. Thank you very much for your help. I like old warrior blades!

Kind regards,
Maurice

Maurice 4th January 2025 08:42 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Hello Ian,

here is a kris I owned a long time ago. It has a similar diminutive pommel, the blade had shallow waves, and there was also silver wire around the handle. This handle was not broken by the way. Also it had decorative motifs carved on the silver asang-asang.
The blade was also partially inlaid with silver motifs.

Kind regards,
Maurice

Ian 6th January 2025 11:30 AM

Hi again Maurice.

I love that second one. It has Sulu dress also. Very ornate blade with, I think, some talismanic symbolism. The hilt is an excellent example of its type.

JeffS 6th January 2025 11:54 PM

On the first one, the pomel looks to have horizontal grooves or ridges. However this is not clear in the full sword photos. Is this the case?


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