Medieval Sword
 

Sorry for the link.

What do you think re: authenticity? This went up pretty fast, and I was tempted because it was a perfect example of the type. But I had a few doubts. It went for way too low if this was authentic though.

I cant say that's its authentic for sure but in my opinion it looks better than 90% of the medieval swords out there that are sold as authentic.

Amen to that !

There are not many surviving swords with decoration on the pommel, not to mention on the cross as well... I find it a bit suspicious that the decoration seems so similar in technique (but much poorer quality) to one that Cerjak shared recently.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21156

I also read a recent discussion about fakes from eastern europe from a few reknowned sword makers (Peter Johnsson in particular gave his input)... This one, however, doesn't have the usual indications. Except for the pommel engraving, which I've seen on what some would say a clear fake. If this is not authentic, then it seems very well made. The proportions are correct for the period albeit a bit more pointed than usual. The flare at the blade shoulder is a nuance seen in really good historical finds. Overall it just looks so good that I'm drawn to the conclusion that someone got very very lucky getting this for below 5 grand. With a bit of cleaning this can be museum quality I think.

If, of course, it is authentic.

There's an inscription on the blade. Can you provide better pictures of it?
Decorations on pommel and crossguard are a bit odd. Looks pretty good otherwise...

I've seen the same or similar discussions so I think we are more or less on the same page on that front. The point about the flare on the blade is a good one. Can you share any photos of the possibly fake engraving that you have seen, for the sake of comparison?

I am also very curious to see more of the inscription; what I think I can see in these photos also leave me with some misgivings. The letters appear to be the larger, earlier style that would have been iron-inlaid, as opposed to later, finer inlays in silver/latten/etc. This early method of inlay seems a little odd combined with the "pointy" blade shape that you mention. It looks like the tip of the blade may even have a diamond cross-section, generally a later feature, though commonly appearing in lower quality modern reproductions of early swords.

As far as I can tell, there does not seem to be any inlay left in the letters... Peter Johnsson has mentioned this as a potential red flag for possibly faked inscriptions.

The inscription seems to start with a circular medallion-like ornament, with a raised shape/character in the middle. Overall, it seems quite similar to the ornaments on the pommel. I have notes, photos, and diagrams of hundreds of inscriptions and have never seen an ornament inlaid in this way. So... I just have misgivings. :shrug:

If you could, please send me the link to the auction as a PM... I think that is within the rules! ;)

For the benefit of discussion, I'll post the rest of the pictures from the completed auction. Perhaps I missed something. There are quite a number of pictures from different angles.

More pictures of the sword for analysis.

Posting at Lee's request, some links to interesting comments from Peter Johnsson re. fake swords.

Viking sword sold for £32,000, suggested to be fake.
http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=170055#170055

Another, sold for £16,000. Inlaid and pattern-welded, most likely fake.
http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=289670#289670

Comment re. inlay that has "fallen out".
http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=289741#289741

Second-hand info, but passed on by a reliable forum member: XIV.6 in Records is most likely fake.
http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=304092#304092

Probable fake with nicks to the blade added to suggest battle damage.
https://www.facebook.com/myArmoury/p...type=3&theater

Original european swords of this period are allways or at least in most cases made from laminated steel, made from refined carbonized wrought iron.

I'm unsure but if the area I highlighted in the picture show traces of lamination, the sword is probably authentic.


Roland

I definitely have no experise in spotting fakes but I noticed something strange.

It took a lot of skill and experise for a Middle Age swordsmith to make such a sword. It was by no means a small feat to forge a sword blade.

So how comes that a skilled swordsmith that can forge a sword blade and give it a perfect shape, cannot forge a reasonably round pommel?!

Also maybe just an impression... but isn't the tang a bit short in relation to the sizes of the sword, crossguard and pommel?!

:shrug:

Agreed that the pommel is really quite poorly formed; not sure about the lamination. Perhaps it is worth considering whether the blade itself may be authentic, but the pommel, cross, and inscription are modern additions... there seems to be a divergence of opinions on the individual components.

Now here is a third example of a sword with the odd, inset pommel decorations. This one was confiscated after being put up for auction illegally in Poland, and the would-be seller was arrested. The seller had "no explanation" of how the sword came into his possession...

The article says "preliminary assessments by archaeologists show it is original... probably from the 10th-12th centuries". This date range seems a bit off the mark, so that doesn't exactly inspire much confidence in the claim of authenticity...

Altogether, a very suspicious set of coincidences... :shrug:

https://www.ebos.pl/wiadomosci/sredn...netowej_aukcji

Reventlov,
Very interesting information i have found some more pictures.
http://www.policja.pl/pol/aktualnosci/18781,dok.html
I'm curious to know the final statements from the polish experts
Best
Cerjak

Hey Cerjak,
I have found a more recent article that sheds more light on this matter... to cut a long story short, the three swords seized in Poland are definitely fake.

http://www.newsweek.pl/polska/awantu...,3548,1,1.html

It seems that the seller "Piotr P." is Peter Pajewski, the son of one Edward Pajewski who I have heard of before... a blacksmith who has a legitimate(?) side business producing aged reproduction swords. Piotr told the police that he had made the swords himself, but the police did not believe him and proceeded to announce to the media that they had recovered "national treasures". A blog post claims that Edward now boasts of the incident, taking it as praise for the quality of his work!

http://paul-barford.blogspot.ca/2010...ord-sword.html

I found another photo of probably the same sword on a Polish message board, and a photo of some similar swords in what looks like an album of Edward Pajewski's metalwork. Two of them look very much like your sword, I'm sorry to say. :(

http://odkrywca.pl/chcial-sprzedac-s...cz,620427.html
http://kowale.eu/foto/picture.php?/90/category/5