NORTH AFRICAN ?? KNIFE/DAGGER
 

This just arrived, and I suspect it is North African, although the seller described it as Turkish.
The scabbard is brass and decorated on the face. The handle is horn attached to the tang with iron/steel pins. The blade, (which is decorated along the unsharpened section of bottom edge) and the hanging rings remind me of Morocco, as does the blade style. The top edge is sharp for its total length, and the bottom edge sharp for only half its length. The rings are obviously placed so the knife is hung on a baldric.
The whole piece shows good age patina, so I would think it is likely late 19th or early 20th century.
Dimensions OUT of scabbard are 18" (46cm) overall, with the blade 12 1/2" (32cm)
Any ideas as to ACTUAL origin would be welcomed.
Stu

On no good basis except an impression from the scabbard, I'd hazard a guess of North African, as well, tending toward Morocco.

I should emphasise my overall minimal expertise.

Hi,
I would say Morocco or Tunisia
I have seen this kind of hilt before.
It's a kind of Jbula/Genui, or shula... You know what i mean.
Best,

An unusual Koummya?
 

The blade style looks like a Koummya, but I have never seen one quite like this.

I would also venture that it is Moroccan judging by the blade style and scabbard but I have not seen that hilt form on a Moroccan Koumaya. As a matter of coincidence if you google Turkish Jambiyas and peruse the images you will see the identical twin of this knife advertised as a 19thC Turkish Jambiiya with bone handle discoulered by age.
Miguel

Hi Miguel,
That is the same dagger shown here for comment. Obviously sellers pics have been posted on Google also.
Stu

Hi Stu, I thought it was strange seeing two knives having identical features in such a short time and of a hilt design on what I think is an old Koumayar blade that I had not seen before. I stumbled across it while looking at various different country`s designs of Jambiyas.
Regards.
Miguel

Hi Miguel,
I had not thought of this being a reused koumyya blade but it could very well be. The scabbard is of course not a koumyya type, but is purpose made to fit the knife.
I think the clue to the origin of this piece is probably the
decoration on the scabbard.
Any ideas?
Stu

Hi Stu,
Your knife is really intriguing me, I have since revised my opinion and think it is a Shula knife, one of the options offered by Kubur, but even then I have not seen that type of handle on a Shula knife although the blade and scabbard look like Shula. I am surprised that no more of the members who have more knowledge of this type of weapon have not commented.
Miguel

Shape of scabbard is all wrong for the Shula. The mouth of this scabbard is distinctly belled. The Shula is not.
Stu

Where does this decoration style appear?
 

I think the key to identifying where this comes from, is the decoration style on the scabbard.
We can agree that it is North African by the blade style and the baldric method of wearing, but the scabbard shape is a mystery, and the decoration????? :confused: Sub Sahara maybe?.... or tribal Sahara?

Oops, you are correct, I don't know how I missed that, will keep searching.
Miguel :o

WHERE DOES THE DECORATION STYLE COME FROM?
 

Does anyone recognise this scabbard DECORATION style?

I've seen those back-to-back concave line forms on wooden stools etc from the Nupe (Nigeria). Or, they might represent the Sudan "double C"

That oval petal motif can be found in Omdurman (Sudan) work. Overall the decoration to the scabbard looks to be well south of the Maghreb region...

I am of the opinion that this decoration bears signs, which you could find both on Nupe old items and on Berber items incl. African Mediterrean coast in Tunnisia (especially "quarterfoils"). The "composition" of the sheath - I mean "connecting cockets" is suggestiv of Maghreb.

Thanks Colin and Martin.
I think we are starting to get some resolve. I had always leant towards this being a tribal piece of some sort, with (maybe) a reused Koumyya blade.
Any other thoughts Gentlemen?

Come to think of it, I've also seen those decorative motifs as on your dagger scabbard, on items of Taureg adornment such as amulet cases and turban ornaments...

Hi Colin, I think that you are just about on the money. See here... http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=telek+dagger
The shape of the hilt on mine is rather close to that of the Telek posted here, so it is not unreasonable to suggest that this is maybe a Taureg creation, using (maybe), a koumyya blade. The decoration is close also though not exact, but then there are many Telek daggers with different decorations on brass scabbards.
Stu

Any further ideas?
 

Thanks for the comments so far. Any other ideas Gentlemen? :)