Pala + Saif = ??
 

Hello everyone,

I am wondering, does anyone actually have examples of Arabian Peninsula saif with a Pala blade? I havent seen a single one with the attractive Turkish blade.

There are Syrian examples around, usually a rehilt with Iron fittings.. but no Saudi/gulf made examples so far.

Hi,
Could you post the Syrian examples?
Never seen before... Are you sure that they are not fake?
Best,
Kubur

An unusual sword.

I've seen Pala blades correctly married in some unusual dress but that would be quite an unusual sword, quite far removed from the traditional form.

Do you think it is more likely that you'd find a longer Ottoman kilij type blade of a more traditional profile before you'd find the broader Pala type within Arabian Peninsula.

What are your thoughts on either. Have you seen longer blades with a yelman in this dress?

Gavin

Hey Gav,

Yep those exist. Also, longer blades with yelmans with Gulf Arab mounts are usually from India although Persian and Ottoman examples exist. Will share a couple from my collection soon. Though I believe now that the pala blade was probably not liked in this region.

Syrian hilted Palas do exist, although mostly rehilts with iron mounts.

Please, post your examples, thanks!

Here are two. Although I have seen others in Saudi museums (King Faisal swords) and others owned by collectors in KSA.

Both blades are wootz.

Thanks
They are not Pala.
They are Indian blades with Arabian hilts.
Best,
Kubur

Yep I posted these as examples of saifs with Yelmans and not palas, as its obvious that am looking for such examples with pala blades.

Hello Mr Alnakass,
Certainly you can find early photographs of dignitaries in the Hejaz wearing what would probably now be described as a Turkish Killij. Obviously this is the Ottoman influence, but it seems to me that blades, now termed pala(s) were not uncommon in this area of what is now Saudi Arabia.
Regards
Richard

Hey Richard,

Yes though the Hejaz area was under heavy Ottoman influence and control. The sword mounts type that am talking about is like the swords I have shared. The existence of fully Ottoman dressed swords (including pala's) is documented in the gulf, mainly in Hejaz and loot/gift items. A Kuwaiti prince is shown with an Ottoman sword for example (I have the photo somewhere!) and Ashraaf of Makkah carried Ottoman swords. I am mainly looking for hybrids here :-)

One of a very well known dealers had in his catalogue a true Pala blade with a disproportionally long yataghan handle.
I am still kicking myself for not buying it.
I recently contacted him and asked whether he had a copy of the catalogue: no, he sold all of them.

Reminds me of the shashkas with pala blades in the Askeri museum :D

I agree, Mr Alnakkas,
Swords, or saif, found either in what is now Saudi Arabia, or in photographs taken in what is now Saudi Arabia, seem to be of these two distinctive types, but never a hybrid of the two. I would imagine the two originate in distinctively different areas, i.e. the pala or kilij outside the Arabian peninsular, and the saif within, from Syria and Iraq, southward.
Regards
Richard

Marriages of unrelated blades and handles are older than dirt. After all, there were no " regulation patterns" and each owner was free to rev up his fantasies.

Miller in his book on Caucasian arms shows a marriage of a Khanda blade with a typical Georgian Khmali handle. CharlesS here had shown us multiple even crazier examples.

BTW, many of those mixed marriages last longer than those of their owners:-)