Fav Medieval Sword
 

Hey guys I love the Middle Ages. What is everyones favorite type of medieval sword?

Mine is Dhu'l-Faqar; which was forged either in the very late 6th century CE, or the early 7th century CE in either Hejaz or Yemen; in the Arabian Peninsula. I'll send you the thread which speaks about this very famous sword.

As for the favorite type of medieval sword, for me, it is the Yemeni straight double-edged sword. Second place goes to the European medieval sword.

Here's the link regarding Dhu'l-Faqar. In this link, there is plenty of information regarding the Yemeni straight double-edged sword:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17804

great article, I read it in one go. with much interest
the blade of Dhu'l-Faqar has great similarities with European swords with extremely wide blades from the 13th century in terms of geometry
Thanks for posting
jasper

Salaams Cornelistromp!

Thanks a lot for your post. Glad you liked the article.

I just have this passion for those wide-bladed straight double-edged swords!

Beautiful and imposing European sword indeed. Thanks for sharing the photos!

Best regards,
Ahmed Helal Hussein

PS: You're absolutely correct, Jasper! I even believe that these wide-bladed European swords may have been greatly influenced by the Yemeni swords that were used by the Muslim warriors during the Crusades. I mean compare the European swords contemporary to the First Crusade (1097-1099), and those European swords contemporary to the Seventh Crusade (1249-1250), for example.

Best regards,
Ahmed Helal Hussein

Saleems Ahmed,

yes I can agree with you, it is of course the question of who came first, the chicken or the egg?
The first European swords with broad blades with parallel cutting edges date from the early 12th century. there are only very few early european examples that I know (the existence) of, 3-4 swords.

see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13457

on the other hand there are eighth century examples sculptures
from the Umayyad period both representations of islamic rulers holding swords, but the shape and width of the blade is difficult to determine.


best,
Jasper

Salaams Jasper!

Actually, the broad-bladed Arab (Yemeni) swords became known in the Arabian Peninsula shortly after 570 CE; with the dimensions of these Arab swords getting larger and larger until 620 CE. The Arabs may have known these immoderate sized sword-blades from the Indian Sub-Continent, but they made their own finish to their Yemeni swords; like the way they grooved the blades, made grips and other parts of their hilts, etc.

European sword-blades generally did not become immoderate in dimensions until after the First Crusade. The elite Turkish warriors; along with the Arabs and Kurds have been using these broad Yemeni swords (also called Mashrafi swords) for many centuries before the Crusaders came into contact with them in the Middle East (during the Crusades).

Another route of influence may have been via Muslim Spain; though I tend to believe that the Arab swords used by the Moors were usually of moderate dimensions.

One route of influence that I would not doubt would be the Byzantine Empire. Troops from many ethnic groups fighting for this empire have come to contact the Muslim world for a long time. Though the Byzantines continued forging their long and slim swords until the 9th century CE (according to al-Kindi), al-Biruni said that in the 10th and 11th centuries CE they were using swords similar to the Ulber(h)t and Ingelrii swords forged in Western Europe. I would add to that that constant warfare with the Muslims in the 10th and 11th centuries must have taught the Byzantines to forge swords of immoderate dimensions; similar to those Yemeni swords used by their Muslim enemies; even though the Byzantines still preferred "German Steel" over Crucible (Indian) steel, for making their blades.

I'd like to know your opinion, Jasper.

Best regards,
Ahmed Helal Hussein

salaams Ahmed,

I do not know if my opinion can add something to this discussion
I'm more at home in medieval european swords from 1100 onwards.
this is a bit too early for me.
but I think the early islamische swords are that interesting that I'm going to delve into it some more.

however I do think it is impossible to say who influenced who.
fe. There is a 11th century Viking sword found in Bulgaria at a Byzantine battle site with a characteristic viking pommel Petersen type H and with a Byzantine guard.
In Romania a sword has been found with Ulfberth inlay, and rivetted guard and pommel, a typical Byzantine sword hilt construction.

on early Byzantine sculptures Spanish swords hilt form can be seen , etc

the broad wide blade with multiple fullers can be an early (9thC) Byzantine development.

who influenced who, I really don't know


best,
Jasper

THE SWORD OF SUTTON HOO, MY FAV SWORD AND THE HELMET THAT WAS FOUND WITH IT MY FAV HELM. :D 7th CENTURY AD.
A FEW PICTURES AND A LINK TO THE BRITISH MUSEUM. THERE IS QUITE A BIT OF INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON LINE FOR THOSE INTERESTED. THE DATA ON THIS SWORD AND OTHER ARTEFACTS SHOWS THAT THE SKILLS TO MAKE THIESE ITEMS WAS WELL DEVELOPED BY THE 7 CENTURY IN THE REGION AND LIKELY GOES BACK A LOT FARTHER..
http://finds.org.uk/staffshoardsympo...ers/kevinleahy

Salaams Jasper!

Regarding Byzantine swords, until the late 9th century CE, their blades were usually forged from soft iron that was case-hardened. At that time, and centuries before that, the Byzantines showed their admiration of pattern-welded blades; although they did not trust most of these blades. For the Byzantines, the solution came when Ulfber(h)t blades that were made of homogenous non-crucible steel. These blades had great acceptance in the Byzantine Empire. After their sword-blades were long and slender and made of case-hardened wrought iron and were used mainly for thrusting, the Byzantines switched to the Ulfber(h)t and later Ingelrii sword-blades that were usually used for cutting. Now then, from where did I obtain this information? The answer: From the compositions of al-Kindi, and al-Biruni; the former writing in the 9th century CE, while the latter writing in the late 10th and early 11th centuries CE.

Therefore, I agree with all what you said; except with what you said regarding the wide-bladed multi-fullered swords were of 9th century Byzantine influence. Actually, the Yemenis knew these swords since the 6th century CE. If the Europeans did not know this from their own pattern-welded swords that date to the Migration Period (400-700 CE), then they've learned it from the Muslims, who were using Yemeni swords, during the Crusades. If not from the Muslims, then the Europeans learned this from the Byzantines, who in turn learned it from the Muslims.

Although the Merovingians and other Germanics forged pattern-welded swords with several fullers, I do not know why, when the Ulfber(h)t and Ingelrii swords were forged, the Europeans, for several centuries, forged their blades with a single wide fuller on each face of their blades...even though they returned to the multi-fullering in the late Middle Ages.

Thought to share this with you!

Best regards,
Ahmed Helal Hussein

"+Ulfberh+t" swords:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeGv_PU4ZkA

(video)