Ethnographic Arms & Armour

Ethnographic Arms & Armour (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/index.php)
-   Ethnographic Weapons (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   What is this small sword???????? (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10853)

Naga Sasra 1st October 2009 06:03 PM

What is this small sword????????
 
10 Attachment(s)
Someone suggested it was from Thailand, Burma or ??, please help me identify this one. Also forgive me if the writing is upside down.

It is 27 5/8" long or 70 cm and look too good to me to be of the tourist kind.

Thank you in advance. ;)

Henk 1st October 2009 06:50 PM

Looks like a european court sabre. Maybe it was made as a result of those influences?

Atlantia 1st October 2009 06:55 PM

The three headed elephant is 'Airavata' and is associated with (the mount of) Lord Indra.
But the form that it appears on your sword, it looks like the depiction on the flag of Laos.
I'd say its following the european small sword (court sword probobly in this case) influence but definately not European.
Laos, Thailand.. I wouldn't think India as it just doesn't 'feel' Indian.
Look at the architectural pommel and the hanging 'bells' looks like SEA work.

Mark 1st October 2009 06:59 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Most likely Lao (based on a European style, of course). The trhree-headed elephant is a Laotian royal symbol, and on the Laotian Royal flag.

Atlantia 1st October 2009 07:02 PM

Just wanted to add, I think its very nice! Would look good in my own collection ;)

Norman McCormick 1st October 2009 07:26 PM

Hi,
This is almost certainly a Court Sword in the European style with decoration in regional taste, which region I don't know. There is no reason to assume that this sword was locally made it may well have been made by one of many European cutlers to local specifications. Wilkinson in the U.K. for example made many sword patterns for foreign governments and individuals e.g. Ethiopia.
Regards,
Norman.

P.S. Upon reflection, Siam or Burma would seem the most likely.

Naga Sasra 1st October 2009 09:11 PM

Thank you so very much to Henk, Atlantia, Mark and Norman for the information, I certainly agree with the suggestion it is a European Style Court sword and SEA, the three headed elephant points to Laos (thanks for the flag photo)
I don't know how long Laos have been using the motiv in their flag or as a national emblem. The reason I mention this is to try to establish an age to the sword.
If we have one of our members who can read the writing on the sword, it might also be a clue as to its age.
Again,
Thank you :)

Nathaniel 2nd October 2009 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia
The three headed elephant is 'Airavata' and is associated with (the mount of) Lord Indra.
But the form that it appears on your sword, it looks like the depiction on the flag of Laos.
I'd say its following the european small sword (court sword probobly in this case) influence but definately not European.
Laos, Thailand.. I wouldn't think India as it just doesn't 'feel' Indian.
Look at the architectural pommel and the hanging 'bells' looks like SEA work.

There is also a three headed elephant in Thailand:
http://www.thai-blogs.com/index.php/...lephant?blog=5

Nathaniel 2nd October 2009 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naga Sasra
Thank you so very much to Henk, Atlantia, Mark and Norman for the information, I certainly agree with the suggestion it is a European Style Court sword and SEA, the three headed elephant points to Laos (thanks for the flag photo)
I don't know how long Laos have been using the motiv in their flag or as a national emblem. The reason I mention this is to try to establish an age to the sword.
If we have one of our members who can read the writing on the sword, it might also be a clue as to its age.
Again,
Thank you :)


Well...first the inscription is upside down:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...nscription.jpg

Naga Sasra 2nd October 2009 02:46 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I am sorry the photo was upside down, I will try again :o

Nathaniel 2nd October 2009 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naga Sasra
If we have one of our members who can read the writing on the sword, it might also be a clue as to its age.
Again,
Thank you :)



It's written in the Thai Language.

ห้างยอนแซมซั่นแิอนซัน = Yon Samson and Son(s) Department Store

ห้าง = department store

ยอนแซมซั่น = Yon (sp?) Samson

แิอนซัน = and Son(s)

Naga Sasra 2nd October 2009 03:36 AM

Thank you very much Nathaniel.
This being written in the Thai language would indicate it may be a Thai court sword, unless they use the same written language in Laos. Excuse my ignorance in these matters. :o
I did a quick search on google to no avail, have you or do you know of this store in Thailand, is it still existing or closed down many years ago.
Any help you or other members may be able to provide will be highly appreciated.
Thank you,
Erik

Nathaniel 2nd October 2009 03:55 AM

Here is a comparison in between the Thai & Lao languages.

http://www.thailao.net/both_languages.htm

Similar, yet different.

My Thai friend said they have never heard of this department store in their 30 years living there...

Nathaniel 2nd October 2009 02:59 PM

Of course this sword would obviously be older than 30 years...so your right in that it could have closed down years ago. The prominence of European style swords in the Thai court during the reign of King Rama V which was during the late 1868-1910. Perhaps the inscription is who this sword was presented to?

PUFF 27th November 2009 02:35 PM

The sword is part of Thai government official dress code during the reign of King Rama V.

The acid-etched inscription is "John Samson and son limited" which is a branch of british "Messr. Sam & Sampson & Son", an elegant dress shoes leatherware and saddle tailer on Bond street, London.

The shop first open in Bangkok was in 1898 by Frederick Sampson. Their business was good until at least 1926.

PUFF 27th November 2009 02:51 PM

The three-heads elephant is a part of Siam's coat of arm as you may notice here
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...910%29.svg.png

The elephant symbol was also used as one of the national emblem during the reign of king Rama IV-VI
This is an example of symbol on 1 baht Thai coin

http://www.tammahakin.com/cat/OLD/img/OLD0001630_2.jpg
http://www.tammahakin.com/cat/OLD/img/OLD0001630_1.jpg


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:41 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.