Keris or not?
 

Seems lost many elements in upper area.

Yes.

Cengkrong luk lima.

So Alan, this is normal for this type of keris? No ganga I noticed. :confused:

Yes, form is correct, but sometimes they will have a gonjo, sometimes the gonjo might be iras, ie, just marked on the blade, not fitted separately.

The ones with no gonjo have sometimes had a gonjo fitted & it has been lost, other times they appear to have never had a gonjo.

they seem to exist with and without a Ganja.
The dress and hilt are Madurese and I think that, once cleaned and stained, the blade may, possibly, show as being pamor adeg rambut

Thank you for your knowledge!

Hello, my learned friends， is this one of the same type?

In my opinion, though not as experienced as others, the kris you show is South Sumatran Kris .
I have never seen that particular dhapur featured here (but others with more experience may be familiar with them)

The " ganja" appears to be not really separated from the blade with a " symbolic" separation

To answer your question Hugh, i would say no, this last keris you show is not Cengkrong. It clearly has a gandik (Cengkrong do not) and the keris is gonjo iras, meaning that the blade is all one piece without a separate gonjo, though it does have an incised line to mark out a gonjo area.

I look at this and can't help but wonder if it started life as ganjo iras or is this its second incarnation?

Yes, it started it's life as gonjo iras! :)

You should be more specific about which keris you are referring to.