Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   Three swords from Central Timor (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28999)

Sajen 4th July 2023 05:06 PM

Three swords from Central Timor
 
4 Attachment(s)
I want to show you three swords from Central Timor from my collection. K. H. Sirag described this type of Timor swords as "type c" in the book from Albert G. van Zonneveld. They always have a handle shaped like a cock's head. The blades are mostly of foreign manufacture and most of the time curved, straight blades are not common so the one in down is an exceptional case.
The top one I've shown here a long time ago before, the two others are relatively new to the collection.
The top one has a Dutch klewang blade from Hembrug, the one in the middle of an unknown foreign saber, the small one in down of unknown origin. The one in the middle missing the inserted crest and maybe a tuft of hair, see picture. The scabbard is made from two pieces of kerbau (water buffalo) horn. By all three are the fittings from silver, heavily patinated which I only partly cleaned.
Top one is 77 cm long inside scabbard, 75 cm without, blade alone is 60 cm long.
The middle one is 69 cm inside scabbard, 65,5 cm without and a blade from 51,5 cm.
The small one in down is 51 cm inside scabbard, 47,5 cm without and a blade from 33,5 cm.
When other members have similar swords feel free to show them here.

Sajen 4th July 2023 05:15 PM

3 Attachment(s)
The handles.

Sajen 6th July 2023 08:41 AM

Over 100 views and not one single comment?

milandro 6th July 2023 02:10 PM

the top one appears to be a repurposed Hembrug Dutch " Klewang"( the Army and Navy weapon still in used in the NL by the marechaussee and formerly used by the KNIL army)

Sajen 6th July 2023 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milandro (Post 283157)
the top one appears to be a repurposed Hembrug Dutch " Klewang"( the Army and Navy weapon still in used in the NL by the marechaussee and formerly used by the KNIL army)

Yes, you are correct! It has a blade from a Hembrug klewang like I stated in #1. These swords Karel Sirag described in the book from Albert, "Traditional Weapons Of The Indonesian Archipelago" as "type c" have most of the time repurposed blades of European manufacture.
Thank you very much for the first comment! ;)

Regards,
Detlef

milandro 6th July 2023 04:39 PM

cheers , sorry I have missed that part

Sajen 6th July 2023 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milandro (Post 283161)
cheers , sorry I have missed that part

No need to say "sorry"! I am glad you got the ball rolling! :D:D

Interested Party 11th July 2023 01:54 PM

I'm sorry to see these haven't created more discussion. I wish I had something to add as I find these interesting. Did the culture use straight blades as well?

Sajen 11th July 2023 03:22 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Interested Party (Post 283234)
I'm sorry to see these haven't created more discussion. I wish I had something to add as I find these interesting. Did the culture use straight blades as well?

Thank you very much for interest! ;)

And yes, there are straight blades as well but normally not by these "type c" swords which are attributed to the Antoni people.
Timor has many different ethnic groups, look for further information here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timor
And it's different when we speak about Timor (we mean normally this island) or when Indonesian people speak about Timor, they mean the complete Eastern Small Sunda Islands including Alor, Savu, Roti, Wetar and so on.
See also "Traditional Weapons Of The Indonesian Archipelago", when you have this book.
Attached is a picture of my South West Timor sword "type d" described by the same source.

Regards,
Detlef

David R 1st December 2023 09:38 PM

Very nice to see these three, thank you for posting. Like others I sometimes spend weeks or even months away from this forum, and then have a good old trawl through on all the new posts.

Sajen 2nd December 2023 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David R (Post 286524)
Very nice to see these three, thank you for posting. Like others I sometimes spend weeks or even months away from this forum, and then have a good old trawl through on all the new posts.

Thank you David! Surprisingly, they seem to have attracted relatively little interest!;)

Regards,
Detlef

Ian 4th December 2023 05:26 PM

Useful information for the Archives here
 
Detlef, I think the paucity of responses to your posting of these swords reflects a lack of experience with the knives and swords of Timor. We just don't see very many. My own reaction was, "interesting swords ... I need to bookmark this page for future reference." A lack of response doesn't mean a lack of interest. A high number of views but few responses indicates high interest but not much to add to the discussion.

Now that you have illustrated these uncommon swords, I expect this thread will get revived from time to time as Forumites come across further examples. This is very useful material for our Archives.

Thanks for taking the time to create this thread.

Ian.

Sajen 4th December 2023 09:06 PM

Thank you for your warm words Ian! :)


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