Moro Spear
 

I have secured this wonderful old Moro spear for my collections and with the vendors permission can bring these images to light until I can recieve, clean and provide my own images.
Through communications with Maurice, Lee and others ;) you know who you are, I am bringing this forth to somewhat help further cement identification on Moro spears.

So when is a spear a spear, a budiak a budiak, a budiak a spear etc etc.
Attached are both links to Lees discussion and Maurice's discussion along with images of the example secured.

The spear is complete, the head is twistcore as is clearly seen, the head also has a fair bit of script to one side and also what appear to be talismanic markings. The collar has yet to be identified as to wether it is silver or bronze, I suspect bronze if consistant with the butt. the butt retains both the fitting and double rings.

As the vendor has indicated to me, this belonged to a Master Gunnery Sergeant in the US Marine Corps and served in WWII. This to me again points to the Sulu regions unless further details come to hand.

Normally I probably wouldn't run one of these down but I thought it was worthy of being display here with the 'Pershing' Kampalin, that, the completeness and the script is what sold it for me.

When one considers Chinese martial applications of the spear, men who mastered the spear where considered cool under fire and never hand sweaty palms. One application was to hold the spear base and thrust it through the other hand like a bullet through a barrel. It I was to draw this paralell, would the Moro warriors have had cloth bound through the butt rings and their hands much like a Keris or Kampalin that has cloth remaining to the hilts?

I hope you enjoy the images as much as I have.

Gav

Lee's http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12538
Maurice's http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11670

Gav,

A box of moro budiaks/spears had been opened on the forum.


I also would like to know the exact differences between budiaks and spears or whatever to call them, mostly with reference of old books, articles.
I always assumed that any moro spear's name was budiak.
But it seems, as Battara stated in one of the other mails, that it need to have that chiseled area to be called a budiak. Or did I misunderstood?

I can't wait seeing this blade cleaned!
Wonder if we could read what the text is saying....
Absolutely a great addition to your Pershing kampilan, and they would be an attractive display for sure.

Maurice

Thats a long box to fit them all in Maurice.

I finally took the plunge after you got the other one that has been discussed ;)

Kinda wish I had a light pen and board here, I'd trace over the script to present it and see what it read...just have to wait.

I'm really keen to see what a fully complete piece feels like in the hand and also if anyone can provide feedback on the rings and if cloth was attached like their other weapons of war...

I got the shock of my life last week too, during Alex's B'day party, Rose was giving many guests the grand tour of arms, not a bad job of it either, as she notes to me often, "I know way more than I should" about the swords but has no reservations to more items like this appearing...should I be worried or what :eek: I think there must be a honey can I have coming soon....

Gav

Hi Gav,

Try rubbing a bit of flour into the markings; that should make them more legible .

I've never seen one of these with inscriptions or marks .

Should clean up nicely .
Nice score .

Hi Gav,

very nice and complete twist core budiak. Would be nice to see it with cleaned and etched blade. I am curious what the inscription saying.

" When one considers Chinese martial applications of the spear, men who mastered the spear where considered cool under fire and never hand sweaty palms. One application was to hold the spear base and thrust it through the other hand like a bullet through a barrel. It I was to draw this paralell, would the Moro warriors have had cloth bound through the butt rings and their hands much like a Keris or Kampalin that has cloth remaining to the hilts?"

Wouldn't one have to drop his Taming in order to fight succesfully in this manner ?

Spears on the ground .

According to Stone the budiak's distinction is the chieselled panel/s that give the spear blade within a spear blade effect.

But do we all agree with that?

Regardless, this is a fantastic example and should clean up dramatically.

I would agree with Stone's so far. Twistcores seem to come in budiak and non-budiak styles. There has been some speculation that the butts with loops like these had rope at the end for retrieval.

A clean up, nice polish, and etching would really bring this nice piece out.

Congratulations! :)

Thanks Rick and a great suggestion, once in hand I'll do so.

Thank you Detlef, I am sure the expertise here will eventually solve the translation mystery when I provide better images upon receipt of the spear in a few weeks.

Indeed, indeed Rick, though it begs me to ask, other than staged fighting such as this, would a warrior have a weapon of choice and use it to the death were applicable, I only ask as there have been numerous documented accounts of the barong and keris single handedly used to dispatch US soldiers in the day. The dramatic portrayals to not mention that they swapped and changed weapons in life and death combat.....they Moro warrior simply had a weapon of choice, faced off and that was that???

Thanks Charles. I tend to agree with the Budiak being having sectioned heads as being discussed in the other links but then I look at this one and although not sectioned the same as Maurice and Lee's, it does appear to be scalloped out over the twistcore section and not being a full elipticatal cross section....Mysteries I am not fully versed in hence my question...what is what and when it it what...

Thanks Battara.

I look forward to adding to this in a few weeks, my early Christmas present to myself.

Gav

" Indeed, indeed Rick, though it begs me to ask, other than staged fighting such as this, would a warrior have a weapon of choice and use it to the death were applicable, I only ask as there have been numerous documented accounts of the barong and keris single handedly used to dispatch US soldiers in the day. The dramatic portrayals to not mention that they swapped and changed weapons in life and death combat.....they Moro warrior simply had a weapon of choice, faced off and that was that???"

I think we can all agree that this was a weapon not meant to be thrown once and picked up after the fight .

Except ...
During the attacks on the cottas all manner of weapons were hurled at the American forces as they closed in .
I have a hard time accepting that spears like these were thrown away once unless in desperation .

One Warrior in this picture carries a Kris .

I would certainly wonder if this were the reason for so many different kinds of butts ( :D ).

This is an amazing spear, surely the largest and longest I have seen and a fantastic find - and so wonderfully complete!

I will be interested to learn if the inscription can be deciphered. Hopefully there is some useful information there, but I had the thought - without the expertise to back it up - that these engravings might possibly also be 'nonsense' Arabic such as was sometimes seen in European Renaissance arms.

Well i think that there is a good chance that these markings are talismanic and magickal in intention. It may not be Arabic letters at all. If it is it certainly would be in the Arabic language. If it appears nonsensical to us it won't be because it is nonsense. :)

Yeah, I kind of agree. Seen a lot of talismanic "Arabic" from Indonesia and Philippines. This does not look like true Arabic IMHO, but I may be wrong (my Arabic is nearly non-existent).

One of my Moro spears
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=Moro+Spear

and a Mandaya
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=mandaya

Nice
 

The spear arrived today and it is a beautiful piece in the hand and can certainly be applied in the martial manner of Chinese spears even if the head maybe considered a little heavy.
The twist core section is hollow ground/forged and there is a very subtle medial ridge within this section so can it be considered a Budiak???

Images and further detail in a few weeks.

Nice spears Bill.


Gav

Not quite Gav. It needs the deep chiseling and the right profile to be a budiak.

a quick clean and an etch
 

Here are some of the finer details of the twistcore head. I found a little time this morning to give it the once over and a quick etch.

Can the script be read? Or is it just gobbledygook?

Gav

Very nice pattern! :D

Now all we need is someone who can either read Arabic and/or Jawi.........

That cleaned up beautifully! I think this is going to turn out to be a readable inscription.

Congratulations Gav,

how beautifull the pattern is!

Just back from holiday and now etching blades allready! Good to be back home...:D

Maurice

translation
 

Battara, Lee, Maurice, thanks :)

Who within the community can I turn to for possible translations?

thanks

Gav

Your welcome! :D

Well for Arabic I noticed Dom does a great job. For Jawi.......well........er.......um.........perhaps someone on the keris forum? :shrug:

Thanks Battara. I looked at the Jawi written language today and I think you are correct in saying that is what it is. I'll spend some time this week trying to make sense of it but I can't feel but help our Keris comrades may be able to offer some help with a translation but their forum is for Keris only....

Gav

DANGER CONJECTURE AHEAD :eek:
I SUSPECT DURING COMBAT BETWEEN MOROS THE SPEAR WOULD HAVE BEEN USED INITIALLY BUT IF IT BECAME TOO CLOSE AND CROWDED TO USE MAY HAVE BEEN THROWN OR DROPPED AS IN THE PICTURE AND THEN THEY CLOSED WITH SWORDS.

WHEN FACEING FORIGN TROOPS WITH GUNS PERHAPS THEY RUSHED OUT AND THREW ALL SPEARS AT THE ENEMY AND THEN RAN LIKE HECK TO TRY AND CLOSE WHILE THE ENEMY DUCKED AND COULDN'T BRING THE GUNS TO BEAR. THE MORO WERE NOT THE TYPE TO THROW THEIR SPEARS AND RUN OFF BUT AGAINST GUNS SHEILDS WERE NO GOOD AND GETTING INTO RANGE WITH SPEAR OR SWORD BEFORE BEING SHOT WAS THE PROBLEM. A MORO MAY HAVE FIGURED IF WE WIN AND I LIVE I WILL GET MY SPEAR BACK IF WE DON'T IT WON'T MATTER AS I WILL HAVE NO FURTHER NEED FOR IT.

CONGRADULATIONS ON FINDING ONE OF THESE MONSTER LARGE SIZE MORO SPEARS THEY ARE FEW AND FAR IN BETWEEN. I LUCKED OUT BACK IN THE EARLY 1980'S AND GOT ONE OF THEM IT SURE WAS HARD TO GET HOME WITH IT AS IT WOULDN'T FIT IN THE CAR. :D

Very, very nice spear! :) Hope that someone will be able to translate the inscription.

This twistcore is very well forged. Notice that there are no faults in the steel. So often with twistcore you have forging flaws that show through but this one is very clean. Very attractive pattern!

wow, stunning spear. Looks sensational after the etch. congrats

Its Jawi. Its quite difficult to decipher the words but it looks like the last two words are names of two "Dato" or "chieftains".

"......Dato Jamil ......kan (verb) Dato' Hasim". I guess Jawi expert can put more light into this.

Outstanding!!
 

Outstanding and thank you Jentayu, this wonderful start is greatly appreciated.

Hopefully another can complete the mystery....though if not I will try to find the time to show this to the linguistics dept of the QLD Uni and perhaps there is someone there who can read it all...again Jentayu, fantastic!!!

Looking at the Wiki Jawi link it appears this angle for translation maybe more suitable :shrug:


Gav