Another sword; another challenge
 

Doesn't the hilt look Spanish ... Boca de Caballo and all ? Doesn't the punzon on the blade ricasso look Spanish, or at least in the Spanish (Toledo) fashion ? Yet it doesn't come in Palomares nomina. As it might have a different origin. Could it be a composite ? That decoration on the blade; what could it represent ? The pommel is the screwing type.
It would be so nice to have some comments on this one.



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Do you have a close-up of the thread on the tang? Looks quite fine and precise in the image shown.

This is a total anomaly, and in risking a totally speculative assessment, the thing I think of is a Spanish 'pappenheimer' type weapon with saber blade which seems to be perhaps Styrian or S.German (by the fullering, decoration). This would be of course mid 17th c. contemporary with Pappenheimers as well as Spanish cup hilts, shell guards (margarite).

Perhaps this might have some connection to Spanish Netherlands ? (1556-1714).

The punzone on the tang does not appear in Palomares*, but is Spanish in manner. In Kinman ("European Makers of Edged Weapons, Their Marks", 2015), p.142, a similar mark with C under crown in dotted cartouche is shown as Zamorane el Toledano, noted pre-1700.

This mark is the crowned C, but with what seems an S (?) enclosed. This could be a spurious 'Toledo' mark as used of course in Germany (Solingen and Munich) and this blade seems 18th c. .

In Wallace Collection (Mann, 1962) there are numerous cases of older hilts mounted with later blades, so these kinds of pairings are far from unknown.
I have a 1750-60s British basket hilt which was infantry used, but in 1783 they stopped carrying swords. The swords went into stores.
At some point later my example was refitted from the straight blade to a M1788 light cavalry saber blade....I have seen two others with this modification. It is hard to say what would prompt these changes, but personal favor or heirloom hilt to a more contemporary blade would seem plausible.

* corrected, the mark does appear in Palomares #94

Palomares nomina? What is the complete name for this work?

Herewith his chart on marks and names. I will send you two PDF's on Palomares (father and son) by email.


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Jim, thank you so much for your previous input :cool:. I will duly process it myself and after pass word to the sword owner.
Zamorane el Toledano also appears in Palomares but, as you say, not properly the same thing.

Fernando in seeing the nomina in larger size, I see #64 which comprises the son of the figure using 'C' and wonder if this might be a variant of the mark on the blade discussed ? Whatever the case, it is a distinctly Spanish punzone character...but unusual for less known makers mark to be used spuriously in Germany, Perhaps this blade is indeed Spanish? but then what period, as Toledo was all but defunct by late 17th c.

Could this maker have removed to Barcelona or in Basque regions nearer Bilbao? possible.Notable mounting of blades (typically Toledo of course) was done in towns near Bilbao, which was the departure port for finished swords and the reason these types of swords with such guard systems became colloquially known as 'bilbos'.

I guess i am skeptical over that probability, Jim. But i wouldn't discard the spurious possiblity !

I think I’ve seen that lattice and plume pattern on Hungarian blades. The blade is for a sabre yet it’s attached to a Spanish bilbo hilt. Maybe the blade even has a false edge at the backside end of the tip?

This is SPOT ON!
That style of blade decoration is indeed well known in Eastern Europe, and most notably on Hungarian blades, where I believe it may have to do with these kinds of occult esoterica known as 'the Transylvanian knot'. While exactly which device or motif this applies to, the entwined lattice type decoration may well pertain to a 'knot' in effect, perhaps referring to the esoteric decoration collectively.

Fernando, totally agree with the skeptical reference, and as always with spuriously applied devices and marks, pretty much anything is possible.

Thank you for your input, Victrix.
I am waiting for the owners confirmation on the sabre false edge; but i think you are certainly right. Actually i have handled this sword the other day, but i missed to check that part.

Thank you Jim, for the additional notes on the blade characteristics :cool:.

Yes, the owner has just confirmed that the blade last section has both sides sharp.



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Back in university while researching something else I remember reading about knotwork being protection spells in western Europe. I am sorry that I have absolutely no recollection of the source.

A pity !

Is it me or does the grip resemble the ones found on later Espada de Ceñir, rather than either Bilbao / Boca de Caballo swords or Hungarian sabers?

I take it that, the grip alone is rather common in Spanish (even Iberian) swords in general, cup hilts and all, made in turned wood. The Hungarian approach, being or not plausible, refers only to the blade.

Curiously, the description of the example shown of "Espada de Ceñir" mentions that its ebony grip should be adorned with golden (twine) wire, which is absent in this example

" puño en madera de ébano gallonado y torzal dorado, ausente en este ejemplar".