VOC marked pedang
 

Saw this VOC mark on a pamor pedang. No date or other stamps. Blade is marked on both sides near the hilt. It seems a bit odd to me. what's your opinion? The hilt looks like a replacement, is not as worn as the blade. Unfortunately I do not have more photos. The pedang is not in my possesion.

My first impression is that it looks sketchy. The blade doesn't appear old enough for one and the mark doesn't look quite right. But i think it is impossible to form any defendable opinions with the photographs you have provided. We really need to see images of the entire blade and clearer, better lit close-ups.

Thanks for your response David. Unfortunately I don't have more pictures. The blade is old, I've seen it. The blade shows much more wear than the grip. That's why I think it was replaced at some point. I have doubts about the absence of a date and the, despite the fact that it does look old, somewhat different version of the VOC stamp.

it may very well be a real VOC blade but if there is something that is regularly faked is precisely the VOC designation , so be careful

Previous thread VOC
 

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...+comprehensive

I agree entirely with David, the VOC marking here seems a bit off, and we do need better and more comprehensive photos to offer more detailed opinions.
I think it is important to note that while the Dutch East Indies Company seems to have been fairly consistent in their manner of marking blades with their trademark VOC, the variation in this example does not suggest it simply being an older version.

As I have noted before in discussing this topic (attached thread) the weapons of these regions are far outside my regular fields of study. However what I have learned is that this VOC marking seems to have held a degree of talismanic value for these regional peoples, and applying it to blades would have been somewhat expected. As Alan Maisey noted in one of his entries, he had little doubt that indiginous smiths produced VOC marked blades with this in mind.

In this case, the mark seems out of character for the usual VOC version, and authentic marks typical had the kamer (six chambers of the VOC) marked above, as well as the typically seen year placed laterally on the blade.

As blades were of course commonly remounted, the disparity between the age of the blade and its dress would not be unusual.

These images of authentic VOC blades illustrate the character and configuration noted, the first with majescule 'A' (Amsterdam, the most commonly seen); the next with 'M' (Middelburg)...........the other chambers were Delft, Rotterdam, Enkhuisen, and Hoorn.

Thanks Jim, that is indeed what you would expect. The absence of a year and the letter of the city is also suspicious to me. It was offered to me but I think I will pass on this one.

You bet Cel, glad I could offer some help. This piece might be of some speculative value in the sense of the traditional character of these being put together, but a good measure of optimism is needed.
It seems I've been looking for a good example of a VOC blade forever, but remains on my bucket list :)

Hi cel7,

As others have noted, this sword was entirely made in Indonesia and unrelated to the VOC. The VOC mark is clearly spurious; for example, the "C" is horizontally not vertically oriented. There are further aspects of the mark that are incorrect, but I won't help the "forgers" by pointing out other errors. The mistake in transcription likely reflects a craftsman unfamiliar with Anglo-European alphabets. This does not necessarily mean that there was an attempt to pass the sword off as Dutch in origin or directly linked to the VOC. Sometimes these foreign inscriptions were intended as a mark of quality, or, as Jim suggests, as a talisman.

Regards,

Ian.

Like the eyelash marks and half moons etc seen on Arab and North African blades?

I believe that we are dealing with a matter of perspective:- if one is a collector of European edged weapons, then this pedang is not a European edged weapon, thus it has no place in a collection of European weaponry, however, if one is a collector of ethnic edged weapons, or perhaps only Indonesian or Javanese edged weapons, then this pedang is a good example of such a weapon.

The VOC mark is talismanic, placed there by a person & for a person indigenous to Old Jawa.

In accordance with Javanese practice, when any part of a weapon becomes shabby, or even if one wishes to give one's old or inherited weapon a facelift, then the hilt or scabbard is replaced, not to do so is an insult to previous owners and to the man who made the blade.

Exactly in the same manner. Various markings on European blades might be perceived in many different ways symbolically in various cultural spheres.
For example, the cross and orb often used on German blades, in the Sudan may be seen in tribal parlance as drum and sticks, important in tribal status.
The half moons often have key symbolic relation in the cosmology in tribal folk religions, much as the other astral symbols such as sun, moon, star .
The dual moons on takouba blades (dukari) are seen as imbuing magic in the blade.

As Alan has noted, the merit of this weapon depends entirely on the perspective of the person observing it, and it is a good example of a Javanese weapon following the traditions of that culture. This is the very manner in which most ethnographic weapons should be viewed, with consideration toward its likely place in the cultural traditions of the people and regions it is from.

I am agree with you sir and also to Ian, it is from Java. Most likely western part of Java. The hilt if i am not mistaken named as variant of makoro, a common hilt from Cirebon to Banten. At least i have two of it.
I do have several golok which stamped just like Cel7's blade.
I think one of the reason is to convince people that it has quality as good as VOC's blade.