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OAKSHOTT Typ X 🤔
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Hello from germany.
My name is Markus and i come from germany. I collect edged weapons from Europe until 1700. I came across the forum by chance and am looking for like-minded people and experts who share my hobby. Also very happy to have contacts in Germany. I wanted to ask you if you could tell me something about originality. It's supposed to be an OAKSHOTT type x. I'm not sure about the pommel though. this consists of one part Total length = 98 cm, blade length a good 85 cm, blade thickness approx. 5 mm, blade width ad cross-guard 52 mm, weight 980 grams |
Welcome to the forum Markus :).
Let us see what the knowledged members have to say about your sword. |
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I hope the experts can help me. The patina looks great and the proportions are right. The pommel I find very strange |
Markus, thanks for posting this. Could you please provide a photo showing the entire sword in a single direct view?
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Hello,
Really nice item !! I find the pommel strange too but the patina seems genuine, does the seller sell it as 100% antique guarantee... depends on how much you paid for... |
While I suspect that the notable silence on this presented example is due to the fact that it seems to be prospectively involved in a sales transaction, I would at least try to take advantage of what it 'APPEARS' to be.
Though the corrosion activity 'APPEARS' to correspond to excavated examples of early swords, we are of course aware of less than authentic examples which have occurred in many cases. I always enjoy learning from examples presented here on the forum, so I am taking the opportunity to observe what historic categories this one 'might' be from, without any conclusive assessment. Oakeshott type X (Oakeshott, "Archaeology of Weapons", 1960), as noted, does seem closest to the category this sword follows, however the blade seems to remain rather straight along its length rather than having a gradual taper distally. According to Oakeshott (p.203), after 1100 swords were basically alike, although with infinite variations. This is understandable as the numbers of makers and no real standardization or regulation would create such case. In the typology, the blades shown are really all remarkably alike with exception of central fuller length. It has been noted that pommel seems unusual. Actually it seems to correspond well to type A (Oakeshott op.cit.p.224) which is shown to period 980AD to 1120AD, with more rarely type X extending with these to c.1200AD). These comparisons are noted to derive from the Behmer & Petersen systems of typology. These pommels seem to have evolved from 'Viking' types. The very 'squared' looking crossguard corresponds to fig. 113, #3 (p.232, Oakeshott, op.cit.) noted from c.1100-1350. Here it is noted of course, that again, hilts and their fixtures were largely of personal taste or I would think local or group preferences. In "Swords of the Viking Age" (Ian Pierce, 2002 with Dr. Lee Jones and Ewart Oakeshott) on p.106 a sword with blade similar illustrates a Viking sword from c. 10th c. with such swords from Norway and that period. There are of course numerous others. So purely as 'devils advocate' for the sake of discussion of swords of this 'type', I add this information from my own study just done for this purpose alone. I hope possibly this would be possible completely objectively focused on the sword type represented and the characteristics, without any assessment of integrity of the example presented. |
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thank you very much for your execution! Here are some new pictures.
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I am curious, as I am clearly no expert, and since you are a collector of these weapons, what are your thoughts, and insights in observing this example ? |
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yes, the seller sells it as an original. I think the sword is very harmonious, but I think the pommel is funny. it is folded instead of made from one piece
the patina also looks incredibly good |
for me (personal opinion) the sword is less convincing, certainly patina means nothing in it is easy to forge. in the current market 99% of the medieval swords on offer are recent reproductions. more important than ever for a purchase of a sword is a verifiable provenance, ie provenance with proof.
hope it helps. best, |
Poor odds
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I totally concur with Jasper and Lee, the odds of this being genuine are profoundly slim and the industrious 'charlatans' who manufacture 'copies' have become too good. This has confounded the efforts of those of us who wish to study the history of these weapons, and taken away the potential for true scholars and collectors to own the actual weapons from those times. Lee, I am with you on collecting days being over, with old age and diminished resources that may be gone, but research and learning never stops :) Fortunately you had the wonderful experiences of collecting and actually knowing Mr. Oakeshott personally, which gave us the amazing resource you, he and Mr.Pierce produced, "Swords in the Viking Age". With these references we can still learn on these swords., |
While the folded pommel is odd I feel it could argue in the direction of authenticity. When iron and steel where rare and valuable smiths would do what ever they could to reuse waste pieces, whereas today a forger will simply select an appropriate piece of bar from stock.
The fact that folded pommels are uncommon argues that a forger wouldn't go to the effort of making one if it would detract from the "authenticity" of the piece. Robert |
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