A true American firearm: the Kentucky Long Rifle
 

I thought I would post something a little different for the forum's collective consumption. :)

The Kentucky Long Rifle represents a true American firearm, from the day of pioneers on the frontier, when one shot was the difference between filling your belly or going hungry. This is the type of rifle used by such famous early American frontiersmen as Davy Crockett. True pre-Civil War period Kentucky long rifle's are scarce and few in number. This example dates to ca. 1845-1850 and was made in North Carolina by North Carolina gunsmith Evan Johnson. The workmanship is beautiful - the photos don't quite do it justice.

Typical of the period, the lock was recycled from an earlier firearm. In this case, the lock is from an early-19th Century American firearm, and has an eagle stamp on the plate aft of the hammer. The stock is made of tiger-striped burled maple. The action made use of a dual trigger, the set trigger allowing for a very light pull. While monstrously heavy, with a length of nearly 5 1/2 feet (over 1.6 meters), the rifle is still quite manageable and could be fired off-hand without much trouble. I included a photo below showing it alongside a Pennsylvania rifle from the same period to show the significant difference in size. The rifled barrel exceeds four feet (about 123 cm!) in length, which would translate to a higher muzzle velocity, and greater accuracy at range.

I know it's not quite as early as what floats the boat of many forumites here, but hopefully it will not go unappreciated by the resident connoisseurs of antique firearms. :)


http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5999/longrifle.jpg

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Hi Chris,
Nice rifle you show there.
But tell me, once you have brought up this mystic weapon, why not posting the genuine thing ... the early flintlock version ?

Hi 'Nando,

Thanks... :)

To answer your question, I guess the reason I posted this example as opposed to a flintlock variant is it's the only Kentucky long rifle I own! ;)

And while not a flintlock, make no mistake, this is still the "genuine" article, still every bit as much a Kentucky long rifle as the flintlocks that preceded it. ;)

As Fernando duly noted, the original Kentucky long rifles were developed during the flintlock era. The original gunsmiths responsible for their design were German immigrants who had immigrated to Pennsylvania during the early-middle 18th Century.

These gunsmiths recognized the need for a different rifle on the American frontier - a rifle that was more accurate, had a longer range, and was more efficient to use. The Kentucky long rifle met each of these requirements... the long barrel resulted in a more complete powder burn and greater muzzle velocity, which provided a flatter trajectory and greater accuracy at longer range. The reduced bore size (.36-.45 cal vs. the more predominant .50 cal of the day) meant that a frontiersman could produce more musket balls from the same volume of lead, an important advantage for the man alone on the frontier and unable to resupply. Also, the smaller shot size meant less powder was required to achieve the same velocity, again preserving precious resources that weren't readily available on the frontier.

The Kentucky long rifle also played an important role in both the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812. During the latter conflict, riflemen from Kentucky and Tennessee armed with these very same rifles played an integral role in the lopsided victory during the Battle of New Orleans, where they picked off British soldiers at will. By the time the outcome of the battle was settled, American troops lost 21 soldiers to over 2,000 casualties suffered by the Brits.

The Kentucky long rifle would continue to play an important role in early American history well into the 19th century. By the late 19th century, breech loaders and lever guns were beginning to gain popularity (and accessibility) and succeed the Kentucky long rifle as the preferred long arm on the frontier. But while the Henry Repeating Rifle and the Winchester '94 would go on to become iconic American firearms, the Kentucky long rifle was - and forever will remain - the first truly American fire arm. :)

Here's one such early example as noted by Fernando. This one, housed in the National Firearm Museum curated by the NRA, is unusual in possessing a double set trigger, an alteration that while more common in percussion cap variants was particularly rare among flintlock examples.

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/3...seum00121r.jpg

Hi,
Absolutely gorgeous rifles, along with my wife I have taken up sporting and prone rifle shooting again after a 30 year hiatus and I really appreciate a nice firearm and the skill involved in making one of these is impressive to say the least. I narrowly missed an early 19thC Austrian target rifle at auction recently and I've been kicking myself ever since. I used to hunt with a Mannlicher Schoenauer fullstock (stutzen) in Win .308 with a double set trigger a gorgeous rifle unfortunately no longer with me :( . A lot of Scots/Irish fought for their freedom in the A.W.I. with this type of rifle to devastating effect, Kings Mountain I believe was a good example of an A.W.I. engagement fought predominantly with this type of weapon. Nice rifles, if any other members have
any examples of early American long rifles or 19thC European target/sporting rifles I would be interested in seeing them.
Regards,
Norman.

Hi Norman,

Thank you! :) These exhibit a degree of workmanship that is unheard of now outside of high-end hunting rifles and O/U or side-by-side shotguns. While modern improvements in technology and manufacturing processes make available a degree of precision and accuracy unheard of 150 years ago (and earlier), skilled marksmen accomplished feats in their day that would be difficult for the run-of-the-mill better-than-average shooter to accomplish today. In one engagement during the American Revolutionary War / A.W.I., famous frontiersman Daniel Boone, armed with an early Kentucky long rifle, sniped an English officer with a center-placed headshot from a distance later measured to be 250 yards. That roughly translates to MOA accuracy, quite impressive for an 18th century rifled musket! I punch paper with a tactical .308 that - when I do my part - is capable of sub .5-MOA groups at 100 yards while shooting prone off bags. However, between 200-300 yards, I am fortunate enough - with decent glass and a head full of serenity - to keep it consistently around 1 MOA. What sharpshooters did in the 18th and 19th century with these rifles is nothing short of amazing.

Speaking of Daniel Boone, his father was one of the sharpshooters who fought along with the Patriot militias at Kings Mountain. ;)

What's so impressive about the long rifle is how well-balanced it is given its seemingly ungainly length. As I mention in the original post in this thread, it is not difficult to shoulder this rifle, and it would be manageable firing offhand.

I would love to shoot this one, but given its value would be awfully remorseful to add any wear and tear. However, the other rifle I show along with it, a Pennsylvannia-smithed Plains rifle (another iconic early American rifle), looks like it wants to be shot. :D

Regards,

Chris

Absolutely beautiful rifle Chris, and thank you for posting it with along with such a great write up as well!!! Like the long rifle itself, your well written detail is right on target :)
Interesting notes Norman as well. While always a sword guy, you guys have really sparked my interest in these fantastic and historic guns.

It really is interesting that these rifled guns had a bit of a slow start militarily, and were originally hunting guns, with smaller caliber and the long barrel to gain velocity. That is about the extent of my ballistics understanding.

It seems that these were a reflection of the rather unique tactics of the irregular forces against the British in the American Revolution. These guns were slow to load, thus were not too compatible with the smoothbore muskets of the time, which were loaded at three times the speed. Also, in pitched combat, accuracy was irrelevant when it became nearly impossible to see targets through the voluminous smoke produced in volley fire of British muskets.
As far as I know, none of these were fitted with bayonets, which was a key concern in warfare as once discharged, the soldier was vulnerable to impending attackers. One unit which was actually issued rifles by the government (Daniel Morgan's) concerned George Washington on this issue, and he ordered them to get spears for backup. The axe (tomahawk) became the most typically used secondary weapon by these riflemen as they neatly slid into the belt as opposed to the awkward spear or pole type weapon.

The reason for the success of the long rifle was due to the guerilla type tactics and accurate fire of the men using them. Most of the regular units of course used European type military muskets. Another problem with the rifle was lack of standardization in the military application, as thier calibers as well as individual dynamics varied so much. Still, the obvious effectiveness of these guns is legendary.

I think that the long rifle stands as a symbolic true American weapon is that it represents the character and innovation of the American colonists. While these were of course, the work of German immigrants originally, it was a country of immigrants, from many countries, all together seeking an ideal.
It was effective in the sense that it was used, though not immediately effective in a regulation military sense. It was a hunting weapon, which became employed against a military foe, by common men with remarkably uncommon valor. Therefore, like them, a true American icon, and as Chris notes, the first of the new Country.

When the acclaim of these marksmen with hunting rifles became well established with the British, it is said that George Washingon wanted to encourage the wearing of 'hunting shirts' among the men, as it suggested that all who wore them were such 'marksmen'. It seems that in much this same sense years later, during the Civil War, Berdan when developing his two units of 'Sharpshooters' for the Union army, the 2nd US Sharpshooters were primarily young woodsmen/ marksmen from Minnesota, and thier first 'uniforms' were the checkered woodsman type flannel shirts. Later, they were issued green uniforms (as opposed to Union blue, and mindful of the green worn by British rifle regiments in the 19th century). In the same manner, it is said these men in green were much feared as snipers by the Confederate forces.

All best regards,
Jim

Fascinating, Chris !
It is really amazing to see flintlocks equiped with a 'hair' trigger, something i would never realized :o
On the other hand, it is noteworthy that, exceptional sharp shooters like David Crockett, besides others already mentioned, could made their day without such a device ... that we know of.
I used to have two weapons with hair trigger: a saloon pistol and a magnificent olympic shuetzen, both in .22 caliber. But as i don't practice shooting and they were 'too modern' to be legal without a licence, i swaped them for earlier firearms :shrug: .

Cap'n Jim!

I see ye ship Work Horse has survived these Arctic strains and am always honored to welcome ye aboard me thread! ;)

You're absolutely right in that it was the right tool for the tactics employed by Colonial forces... When one presents a volley fired by a rigid line of troops, aimed toward an opposing formation of the enemy, precision took a second seat to the sheer volume of shot, sustained by sheer numbers of men. To successfully engage an opposing force using guerilla tactics, accuracy was a necessary condition.

After reading Norman's post referencing the battle at King's Mountain, I did a little reading on the engagement, and it was interesting to read that the Patriot militias would break off their engagement every time the Loyalists would mount a bayonet charge, as they could not affix bayonets to their hunting rifles!

I would have to believe the tactics employed by the sharpshooters were a natural by-product of life on the frontier, where in addition to the skill required to hunt game, frontiersmen were often confronted by an equally stealthy foe in the hostile Native Americans hell-bent on driving the encroaching settlers off their ancestral lands.

Thank you as well for bridging the timeline of the discussion to include the Civil War. It is not difficult to imagine this rifle in the hands of a Confederate sharpshooter in one of North Carolina militia units that fought in the conflict... On the flip side of that coin, the same Sharps rifle used by the U.S. 2nd Sharpshooters was featured last night on the season premier of Top Shot! Sharpshooters have played an integral role in every major conflict in which we have fought, and their history is a long and storied one indeed. :)


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'Nando - The hair trigger on the Plains rifle is indeed a hair trigger! I have the trigger pull on my .308 set to a shade under 3 lbs... which is light. I would estimate the trigger pull on the long rifle to be just a shade under my .308. But with the Plains rifle, once the set trigger is pulled, I swear the air around my finger is enough to release the hammer! :eek:

The dual set trigger acted as a safety of sorts, allowing the primary trigger to be set to a very light pull. Breathing and trigger control are the two keys to precision shooting... poor control of the former results in a vertical spread, while poor control of the latter results in a loss of horizontal precision. The lighter a trigger pull, the less the tendency to literally "pull" the trigger. :) A light pull = a very gentle squeeze. The long rifle also has an additional integral safety, as the set trigger must be pulled before the hammer will cock, an interesting feature that again speaks to the quality of workmanship that went into its manufacture.

I have read that in cold (Nordic) countries, target shooters have a different hair trigger setting between summer and winter, to compensate the (triggering) finger stiffness.

Thank you Chris! and it does appear we are in the final stages of this bizarre winter blast to the southern plains, the powerful winds have kept chill factors at zero to single digits steadily.....I can totally relate to Nando's note about adjustments and stiffness in cold!!!

I have hardly ever handled firearms, so cant add much to the comments you guys have added in that regard. However once years ago, while in the remote mountain areas in Arkansas, I did get the chance to fire one of these flintlock rifles. Here I was, the most rank novice ever, yet despite being the farthest from a marksman imaginable....the rifle hit its target perfectly!!!
What an experience!!

Wonderful thing! And quite nice condition.

I like these too!
 

Congratulations, espada, this appears to be a very nice southern long rifle! I must say that I like the simpler ones like this without too much in the way of added 'frills,' but with fine quality of the core components and construction.

I briefly collected American long rifles a couple of decades ago and I do continue to enjoy them.

When I got my new camera last fall I took down another 'late' example that hangs over my fireplace (a relatively 'modern' display position, I am told - as iconic as horned helmets on Vikings, but also not very likely where these rifles were actually kept 'in their day') while testing the camera out. I soon lost mild cloudy days and my driveway studio is now a frigid snow canyon. I posted those pictures on another forum specializing in this area. It was interesting to work out a hypothesis about who had actually made this rifle as my reference books are contradictory and confused about several riflesmiths named 'Christian Beck,' but I believe (and I know there are those better informed than I who disagree that the man existed) that this relatively late example is the work of the son of one of the most celebrated makers, J. P. Beck.

Discussions of American long rifles are most welcome here, but I would recommend members interested in the subject also peruse the American Longrifles forum.

Hello Lee, and thank you, both for the compliments and for the link to your own exploratory journey pertaining to your own example of this iconic firearm, which I see took place just a couple months ago. I immensely enjoyed reading the feedback and input regarding your (C.? J.P.?) Beck rifle. Would you mind if I post those pictures here in this thread?

Until now I was unaware of the existence of the ALR forum (early firearms do not command my interest to the same degree as edged weapons), and I'm appreciative of the tip, one definitely worth pursuing. :)

One bit of interesting information regarding the gunsmith responsible for the manufacture of my own example: Evan Johnson was one of only two gunsmiths in North Carolina with rifle boring machines in the mid-19th Century...

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Zwielicht, thank you, and it is indeed in nice condition, lacking any of the damage commonly found where such rifles were most susceptible to breakage.

Jim, my friend, the next time you're westward bound, at your request we will remedy that lack of exposure! Though I am somewhat confused, as I though in the Lone Star State, it was mandatory (state law, even?) that all Texans shoot something at least once a month? ;)

Nando, such customs of variable trigger pulls as you describe make perfect sense, though personally, I would never want a trigger set to such a light pull as I described on the Plains rifle, as some tactile feedback is IMO important for the timing of a shot where accuracy and precision are at a premium.

Hi Chris,
LOL! Yup, in Texas pretty much everybody has a gun, or many, but not being 'officially' Texan, I think I fall in the exceptions category. Since my status as a gypsy rover pretty much prevails mostly, I'd have to say Im probably more Californio than anything else :) When the caravan gets west I'll sure take you up on that!
Just wanted to say I really like your style Chris, not only do you take the time to acknowledge the posts and comments of others, but you do so personally, a most refreshing courtesy. Thank you.

All the best,
Jim

Thank you Jim - your kind words are warmly appreciated. And yes, my friend, you are most definitely a fellow Californio, but when in Rome, eh? ;)

Beautiful rifle, especially the tiger maple!! I've always been fascinated by the various patterning of this wood in Kentucky rifles. Used to get Flayderman's catalogs with examples in color on the cover. Amazing piece. I can see why it was one of the factors that turned the tide of the Rev War vs the ole' Brown Bess. The frontiersman's accuracy with these were spot-on for the period. Thanks for posting it!

I have seen these old rifling rigs in museums and I am always somewhat overwhelmed when I consider the skill and labor that went into making one of the barrels, let alone the entire rifle (even though locks were usually bought from a specialist).

My first long rifle was fairly plain, like yours lacking a patchbox but with a well proportioned and crafted tiger maple stock. Enthusiasts chided me - to my horror - that if they had it they would promptly redress that deficiency. It had been flint and was converted and then reconverted with some overly worn parts. But, just as North Carolina guns are scarce, this one turned out to be from a maker who had migrated from PA to the Hudson Valley region of New York just before the Revolution and so it too is a bit uncommon. I will present it once I have my photo studio back and manage to dig it out from the back of the armoury.

Espada, if you will allow me a couple of days, I will dig out the originals of the Christian Beck rifle pictures. The ALR forum software downsizes the images and so the versions I retain are a little sharper. I enjoyed that bit of detective work and I am convinced that there are at least four blood-related Christian Becks that were making rifles. The eldest Christian Beck had a son also named Christian Beck, but that son apprenticed under a different maker and worked in a different, though very plastic style. I cannot imagine a man as proficient as he in engraving giving all of that skill up to place a single line of rocker engraving! Despite documentation deficiencies, the rifle over my mantle must have been made by a cousin of the eldest Christian Beck as it has features more in common with the eldest Christian Beck and his famed brother J.P. Beck, but in a rifle clearly a generation later than these golden age masters. But there is much more research to be done to prove or disprove this observation.

Hi Lee,

I will happily wait for you to post the photos of your rifle, and look forward to seeing more examples to this thread. :) Regarding your your thread on ALR, your genealogical chart on the Beck family of gunsmiths was impressive... What meager research library I have at my disposal is focused primarily on edged weaponry and tribal arts, and I have next to nothing focused on antique firearms. What information I have on Evan Johnson was supplied by another area collector.

I guess I am a little surprised to hear antique firearm enthusiasts would suggest an alteration that would modify a piece beyond its original form... adding a patchbox to a stock that originally did not possess one?!? :confused: I can't think of a similar alteration one could make to an antique edged weapon that would be considered acceptable by the collector community.


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Mark - Thank you... :) I read somewhere that gunsmiths would cure the maple for - what was it? - four years, I think, before they would shape it. A definite aesthetic improvement over the walnut that I understand was the predominant wood of choice in the manufacture of European long arms of the period.

Late Long Rifle likely by Christian Beck, Son of J. P. Beck
 

Early enough to have started out as a flintlock, but sufficiently late that the lock is secured by a single screw, as above, see the discussion on the ALR Forum. The promised photographs follow...

Yeah, a rather unorthodox procedure, so to say; both in fire and edged weapons :o .

Beautiful rifle, Lee... It's nice to see another example added to the thread, and thank you for posting the pictures. :) Any idea what made the inscribed circles / circular impressions I see inside the patch box?

I believe that the scribed circles are tool marks reflecting the flat bottomed wood working drill used to 'excavate' the patchbox recess.

I was paging a book that i have and learned that "Old Betsy" was the name of the Kentucky rifle that was gifted by Philadelphia to David Crockett.
I have also scanned from the same book a nice air-brush illustration of the mechanism and butt of an example of these rifles, in which the patchbox has the particularity to open laterally.

.

Hi 'Nando,

The flintlock mechanism you posted is doubtlessly a replica of the mechanism of a Prussian military musket, ca. 1740!

I attach some images of a Pussian musket und pistol of the 1740's. The identifying characteristics are the sharply edged jaws of the cock, the edged underside of the pan and the even upper ridge of the frizzen. The original Prussian mechanisms were always signed POTZDAMMAGAZ for the Potsdam arsenal. The belly of the flat cock always protrudes over the lower edge of the lock plate.

Nobody's perfect, even books are not. I have noticed over the decades that a lot of rubbish about German military muzzleloaders has been published overseas ...

Best,
Michael

Hi Michael,

That would make perfect sense, considering an overwhelming majority of the Pennsylvania gunsmiths credited with developing the Kentucky Long Rifle were 1st- and 2nd-generation German and Prussian immigrants. :)

Regards,

Chris

Hi Chris,

Good point, this one! :) I now remember reading about that fact.

Best,
Michael

Ai Michl, don't shoot me :o .
I was only willing to show that atypical (?) patchbox; the lock happened to be in the same page and i decided not to delete it.
But let me tell you that the book author was aware of the Prussian influence in the lock depicted. In the text, and in line with what Chris reminds, he quotes the several gunsmiths that were among the large number of German imigrants that in 1710 fled to the New World for religious reasons and settled on the territory of Pennsylvania, continuing with the production of their favourite rifled flintlocks which, after known evolutions, originated the Kentucky rifle.
In a different perspective, the author assumes the virtual Prussian origin of the posted lock, in a page where he confronts de various lock typologies, as here (partly) attached.
By the way, the book is called "Great Century of GUNS" (ref. XIX century), with texts by Branko Bogdanovic and air-brush illustrations by Ivan Valencak (ISBN 0-8317-4070-1).

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Hi 'Nando,

Please don't be too angry with me ... ;)

I never meant any embarrassment on any side, just wished to state the Prussian origin of this lock mechanism. Now it's my turn to bow down in the face of the amount of facts presented by you - so sorry again, and congrats on your being so widely read. :)

Thank you so much for enlightening such a narrow-minded old matchlock fool like your Bavarian friend. :D

Best,
Michl

C'mon Michl :shrug: .
Don't invert things :o .
It's me who is trying to come out of it as hygienicaly as possible ;) .
I wouldn't be able to differentiate one lock from the other :eek: .
Lucky that the book had an inspiring answer for the situation :cool: .
Greetings to Bavaria.

This is such a great topic, I wasn't ready to let it go to the thread happy hunting ground!
Just some more on one of the illustrious users of these historic guns, as mentioned, Davy Crockett.

Actually, as has already been noted and along with the great information cited by Chris, Fernando, Michael and Lee, some things I found. I have always been intrigued by the great Davy Crockett as I have lived in both Tennessee and Texas and it is hard not to be surrounded by this history.

While these rifles were actually originated and made in Pennsylvania, primarily Lancaster County, they were of course widely distributed. In those early days, the frontier regions were often termed collectively as 'Kentucky'. Since the areas which popularized the guns were typically in the frontier, the Kentucky appellation became well known.

Whether or not Davy Crockett actually surrendered and was summarily executed at the Alamo or died in combat, as long popularly held, has long been the subject of debate. It does seem quite likely that if he did, as believed, die in combat, he quite likely might have been swinging a rifle as a club. In close combat it would have been impossible to reload, and would have become a weapon of opportunity ,using any means at hand. It was said by witnesses that he was found amidst an array of dead Mexican soldiers, and he seems to have used a knife as well.
The idea of the 'execution' is believed to have been perpetuated in later efforts to demonize Santa Anna further, and to place emphasis on his order for 'deguello' (=no quarter).

Actually Crockett had three rifles known.
1. a .48 cal. flintlock which was apparantly one of his personal early guns which has been held in a museum in Knoxville. It has never left Tennessee.

2. The .40 cal. flintlock rifle which was awarded to him by his constituents from Lawrence County, Tenn. and was made by James Graham c. 1822. From 1824-1834, he is known to have hunted bear with this rifle, and which was affectionately known as 'old Betsy'. The name appears to have come from his older sister, whom he held in deep respect, but it is believed that the name may have been 'pretty Betsy' as in one speech he refers to her as thed prettiest sister ever.
This rifle also remained in Tennessee when Crockett went to Texas.

3. A rifle, apparantly percussion, caliber not noted, was presented to him in 1834 by Whigs from Philadelphia. The gun is now in Nashville. The gun was also called either 'old' or 'pretty' Betsy.

Crockett openly disparaged the policies of President Andrew Jackson, which led to his defeat in his run for House of Representatives in 1834. Thoroughly disgusted he left Tennessee in 1834 for Texas. None of these guns went with him, so we have no idea what gun or type of gun he was using at the Alamo on March 1836 when he was killed. The #2 rifle, Old Betsy, is on display at the Alamo in San Antonio now.

It is known that on the way to Texas, Crockett and companions sought to acquire heavier caliber guns as the small caliber of these guns were not sufficient for the larger animals hunted in these regions to the west. I believe that this was the case with the use of rifles during the Revolution, of small caliber guns , and that only deadly aim direct to vital parts of the target would be successful. Naturally the question of velocity, as noted, would be considered as well.

I just thought these notes would be of interest, and I am hoping possibly that a separate thread focused on the symbolism of markings on these 'Kentucky rifles' might be started with some examples.

All best regards,
Jim

Gosh, Jim,

From a well known non-firearms man I would never have expected such a profound lot of facts on the Kentucky rifle legend Davy Crockett. Must be I forgot that a great arms historian can deliver inputs like this on any topic any time! ;)
I have been trying to look at all flintlock Kentuckies I can find in U.S. sales for years - even to me they seem to have got that certain something: long and elegant, with octagonal barrels - somehow they almost remind me of those old German matchlock muskets! :D


Thanks for teaching me,
and best,
Michael

Thank you so much for the kind words Michael, and though I am decidely a non firearms guy, for me its about learning and this material is from spending some time researching. As always great fun to learn, and Davy Crockett was always a hero from my youngest days......watched intently the Walt Disney series on TV with Fess Parker. Taking myth and finding fact is one of the greatest adventures and we find that the truth often is even more rewarding.

Since the German craftsmen were the progenitors of this distinctly American gun, it really does reflect our deep German ancestry which did indeed extend to those early guns. I believe if not mistaken, the first rifled barrels were on matchlocks in the 16th century.

All the very best,
Jim

Abloutely correct as always, Jim,

The fist rifled matchlock arquebus seems to have been manufactured in about 1500 and belonged to the Emperor Maximilian I. It once was in the Renwick (+1972) collection, and then got laid down in the Smithsonian, from where the rest of the Renwick guns were sold in the 80's or 90's. Its present whereabouts are unknown.

Best,
Michael

Thanks very much Michael! I love learning this stuff, and you're a great professor :)

All the best,
Jim

You know how Jim is, when he decides to take things up to his chest; he unlocks his cuff links and rolls up whis sleeves in a way that you can't stop him :eek: .

.

Wow, that's like Jim indeed! :cool:
m

Hi Jim,

I owe you a much belated "thank you" for the wonderful historical reference to Pioneer legend Davy Crockett. :) I have found plenty of articles on line referencing this famous firearm, but little - if any - accompanying imagery.

In fact, I could only find two photos, the first of which is of what is reported to be his first "Betsy:"

http://img858.imageshack.us/img858/3340/firstbetsy.jpg

...and while it is not the rifle with which he was armed at the Alamo, if I understand it correctly, this Old Betsy is the rifle on display at the museum there:

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/510...tsoldbetsy.jpg

:shrug:

I'm not sure how given the absence of any survivors a particular rifle could be attributed to Crockett, but either way, I have greatly enjoyed reading the collective contributions here, and am glad this topic has generated the appreciation and interest it has. :)

i love these rifles. had a .36 calibre percussion lock repro kaintuck i shot while i lived in the states.(also had a .58 springfield rifled musket that ate a lot more powder & lead per shot)

while the main discussion here is the 'kentucky' variant, i myself prefer the pennsylvania. my understanding was the ones with the straight topped butt stock were 'kentucky' and the more roman nosed (rounded top) ones were 'pennsylvania'. the half stock (straight topped stocks again) hawken/plains rifles in .50-.68 were the magnums of the day. probably what ol' crockett was looking for on his way to history at the alamo.

flintlocks were fairly easily converted to percussion locks to extend their usefull life, tho using percussion caps ties you to civilization, it's a lot easier to find flint in the boonies than a reliable source of caps. even gunpowder could be made from dung, charcoal if you could find sulphur. percussion caps require a more industrial society.

oops, double posted...