Need id and translation for a big blunderbuss.
 

Need id and translation for a big blunderbuss.
Hi everybody
I hope somebody could be able to tell me more about this quiet big blunderbuss. I don’t know in which language the marks in the stock are. The total size is around 125 cm for around 6 KG.
I Guess it was a English flintlock blunderbuss who was turn into percussion.
IT will be fantastic is someone will be able to translate those marks.
Best regards

Cerjak

still need help
 

still need help to translate or ID the marks .
I hope it will solved....

I don't know anything of blunderbusses.

But the motifs are Islamic talismans and the rattan bindings resembles those usually found on the Dayak mandau.
So my guess is that it might come from the Banjarmasin area in south Borneo where both these features are common.

Michael

Hi
YES, it's Islamic talismanic writing, but, through Arabic language,
means nothing intelligible :shrug:
by vocation, everything related to magic is often very obscure
for the not initiated :p

à +

Dom

i can read it and it is in arabic. but i can read only the individual characters because the words dont make sense. i think the word in the centre is similar to شيطان which means "devil" / satan.

but i am not sure. it is just a possible answer.

Dom,

Maybe the writing is based on simiya' (the art where the letters represent mathematical values of hidden words, names etc.)?

Michael

Wow. I like this blunderbuss a lot!
Very cool. I would say Banjarmasin area also as Michael stated, as there were a lot of Blunderbusses used in the Banjarmasin war. The knots indeed looks like dayak knots used to hold the two slabs of wood of the scabbard together.

I've attached an image of some blunderbusses on a litograph of (about) 1881, Bronbeek museum Arnhem.


Thanks for sharing!
Maurice

Hi Cerjak,
I assume that there are no marks on either the lock or the barrel? The style of the weapon LOOKS British with added script and raffia barrel bands, but without any proof marks it is guesswork. The hammer looks way too rough for a British piece but it could have been replaced at some stage.
Sorry can't be of more help.
Regards Stuart

Wow ! lovely piece.

There is decoration on top of the barrel. Can you make a better picture of that ? is it inlay ?

Best regards,
Willem

It's not Satan/Iblis etc. but related to djinns etc. being the 7 seals of Solomon.
See the related thread
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16496

Michael

there is in this place so much knowledge !
 

I have to says that his discussion forum is really fantastic and I there is in this place so much knowledge ,Michael I have really appreciate your precious help ,I was not expect this documentation about pan-Islamic talismanic motifs and I can’t thank you enough for your answer. I was afraid that all those signs was without significations and now I will appreciate much more this Blunderbuss.

kind regards

Cerjak

Conversion Maybe?
 

Hi,
Stu is on to something the hammer is a bit odd, the area where the percussion nipple is located may have been a weld up flintlock pan. the lock seems to have extra holes that may have retained the frizzen spring of a flintlock. just a guess. Steve

AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, THE KEY TO THE ORIGINAL ORIGIN WOULD BE ANY PROOF MARKS, EITHER ON THE VISIBLE PARTS OF THE BREECH AREA OF THE BARREL, OR THEY COULD BE UNDERNEATH. SINCE THE BANDS ARE RATTAN OR RAFFIA IT WOULD BE A DELICATE OPERATION TO REMOVE THEM SO THAT THE BARREL CAN BE LIFTED.
ONE FURTHER POSSIBILITY IS THAT THERE COULD BE MARKS INSIDE THE LOCK.
STU

dear steeve

Yes I confirm you it was previously a flintlock blunderbluss.
Kind regards

cerjak

small reminder. maybe the decoration can indicate a certain origin :shrug:

I found this talismanic inscription on a website with Aceh swords.
In this case it is part of a peudeung which was also discussed onthis forum once.

http://home.comcast.net/~jtcrosby/Aceh.html

Dear Willen

Thank you very much for this very interesting link ,I will try to take some beteer pics from the top barrel

Regards
Cerjak

barrel pics
 

barrel pics

The decoration does not look like Aceh IMHO.

I'm with Michael and Maurice and also believe this blunderbuss got modified/utilized in the Banjar/Negara region.

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

The decoration does not look Banjar/negara to me neither.
Does it to you ?

I hope that someone can check the writting and confirm or rule out jawi. :shrug:

oops, almost forgot the big WOW :eek: for the decoration.

Envy is turning to a new shade of green here ;) :D

Best regards,
Willem

Hi Willem, got your email.
So sorry for the late reply.
I was moving to Alor Setar some 460 km north of Kuala Lumpur.
I still don't have internet access at home and I have to go to cybercafe instead.

Regarding the translation .. I can't do that because it's a diagrammatical wafaq.
And I'm not trained in that discipline.
Anyhow the second line is called as Wafaq Sulaiman

http://kibayu.files.wordpress.com/20...iman.jpg?w=594

And the first line .. IMVHO Dom knows the translation better than my broken Arabic :o

http://kibayu.files.wordpress.com/20...ah-4.jpg?w=594

While the third line .. have to look further because I haven't found the similar wafaq .. will take some time because without internet access at home I'm a lot slow you know :o

Hope this helps a little.

mohd

Hello Willem,

True - sorry for being terse. The silver inlay motif does look like Straits Chinese influence to me; they had a strong settlement in Banjarmassin and a lot more cultural interchange seems to have taken place there (compared to Aceh).

I can't remember having seen similar notches before though. Any similar examples (from firearms or other implements) throughout Asia?

Regards,
Kai

Hello Mohd,

Thanks a lot for chiming in while being busy!

Is the round inscription from the other side of the stock also a wafaq?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...id=98668&stc=1

Regards,
Kai

Mohd,

Please explain how a straight line of symbols (Khatim Sulaiman) can be a wafaq ("magic square")?
Doesn't it have to be several lines, like a square or rectangle?
Or did you mean that the line with the symbols of Raja/Nabi Sulaiman (Solomon) is part of a wafaq?

Michael

Salam Bro.
thanks for the compliment ... I will forward it to the right person :D
unfortunately, I will not be available, from this evening (18th Dec.) until end of the week,
we are closing our home in Cairo - Egypt, and we will travel to Paris - France,
re-opening, gardening even if it's winter, collecting the most valuable weapons (for me ;) ) , from here and there
and your story is .... an headache in perspective, :eek:
but I've some documentation, about "talismans matter" Islamic and pre-Islamic period, in Paris, may be should be an help :p
best regards

à +

Dom

Thank you Mohd for your kind help.

If I understand it right, these are all wafaq related inscritpions, and not a word Jawi. So the piece might be Atjeh, but there is no direct link to that region. (sorry guys, in the Netherlands we know these weapons mostly from the Aceh war :o )

I am posting the pictures of the 2 links you gave for future reference.

Best regards,
Willem

Thank you Willem . :)
I feel a little bit better about my guess now . ;)

Your welcome ;)

Still guessing on my side...
I wonder if this blunderbuss could have been decorated on the Philippines ?
Magic squares / talismanic signs etc. they are much more common in that region imho.

Best regards,
Willem

Willem,
I have never seen any magic squares or simiya'/abjad-letter symbolism on a Moro weapon???

Michael

Hello Michael,

Yes, you are right, I was just typing before thinking. :o

A small check on the forum brought me to a weapon that is for sure malay/borneo and than I noticed the inlay decoration with the swastika like symbol. exactly the motif on the barrel :eek: :)
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=magic+squares

Hello Willem,

IMHO it's the rattan knots which heavily sway things towards Borneo; and the Banjar/Negara area sure looks like a nice fit to me.

Most surviving examples may well be from that war but as Maurice indicated, these were, of course, also widely used in the other conflicts throughout the archipelago, including subduing the Banjar sultanate. BTW, has anyone studied colonial blunderbusses in detail?

Regards,
Kai

Willem,

Thanks for highlighting another clue to this riddle.

Michael

Hello Willem,

Sorry, posts crossed.

Yeah, I was thinking of Erik's neat blade, too.

Just as a sidenote for Cerjak, real wafaq are also a fairly common feature on upper-end Beladah Belabang (misnamed Parang Nabur). So, other talismanic invocations would certainly be no surprise from this area.

Regards,
Kai

I am heavily leaning towards a Malay/Borneo/Banjar/Negara origin. :) ;)

Problem is, now I want one too ;)

Dear Willem

You was right to focus on the barrel’s decoration ,I was more taking care only about those inscriptions in the wood.
So many thank for your good opinion and this discovery about my blunderbuss.
Kind regards

Jean-Luc

Dear Kai

Thank you for your explanation some time it is hard for me to follow this dicussion but I have to say that I 'm learning a lot about Ethnographic weapon in this forum
Kind regards

Cerjak

I checked a few examples on the website of the dutch army museum in Delft.
Several of them are attributed to be "asian", most of them are said to have Tower locks, some have notches. a few are rebuilt to percussion.
Not realy a study here, but nice for comparisson. :)

from the "gift" of .. Mohd :p

You requested the translation of both documents
- The first, the text is too secret, to expect a translation

- The second is an array, whose writing used is an old Arabic language from Middle East,
with more information to insiders, that we are not
- Syriac names are unknown
- The names of the Earth, also
- Values ​​talismanic, ditto

- The Arabic names are strange
- The names of angels, are readable, although one or two are obscure
- The names of incense, are also interesting, although almost unknown to us

all that to say, we do not expect long explanations, that we would be bored to give you
all this is a culture talismanic that we did not had :shrug:

every line have been translated, excepted for the "cabalistics signs",
you have matter for reflexions and suppositions

now the headache it's ... with you :p

all the best

à +

Dom

Here a picture of a display at the dutch army museum showing a nice blunderbuss with dragon mouth barrel.