War Dogs !!!
 

Anybody got one ? ;) :D

Lionhound takes down Goldendoodle . :D
All in fun of course .

Does Stewie count?
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c5...tia/stewie.jpg

Yep ! :D
LaZeRs work .

Vicious guard dogs Baxter, Percy and Kelly always alert and ready for action!!! :D

TAKE CARE ! ! !
 

Here's WOLF ! One mean and vicious killer chichuahua. Weighs a full 3 kgs.

He will fight you .....and the rest of the world, too ! :eek: :D :p

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...an/Wolf019.jpg

If lions were canines...
 

they'd be Irish woldhounds.

I don't have one unfortunately, but this is the kind of dog I'll get :D

I grew up around Greenland dogs, a breed which seems to consider itself quite capable of harassing polar bears. Here's a clip from a Norwegian documentary about a hunter on Svalbard, with a few bears visiting: http://www1.nrk.no/nett-tv/indeks/95503

'As the Lion is to the Cat, so the Mastiff is to the Dog'

Sorry if I recall that quote inaccurately.

When I think war dog (and I mean in a hiostorical dogs used way) I always think of the Mastiff.

There is an astonishing and allegedly true story about the origin of the English Bull Mastiff breed.
One of King Henrys nobelmen (Sir Peers Legh, I think) fighting with him at the battle of Agincourt took his (French) Mastiff with him.
It is said that he was unhorsed and seriously injured early in the battle and his Mastiff took it upon itself to defend him from all who approached. This included the English Knights and soldiers!
Apparently even groups of armoured French knights were kept at bay by this most devoted of dawgs.
He kept this up for several hours, only relinquishing his ward when after the battle he was approached by members of Legh's close retinue whom he recognised as friends.

Although his master eventually died of his wounds, the mastiffs many small wounds were not enough to finish him and he was returned home to England (apparently honoured by the King!) and became the 'father' of the English Mastiff breed.

He's very 'fierce' and cute!

Just don't feed him after midnight! ;)

What can them doggies do, comparing to real war cats ?
Fernando

.

Great dogs, & link but that polar bear is but a puppy itself surely? A adult polar bear would take each chained dog as food I imagine?

Spiral

......Or War Reindeer perhaps ?.....Fernando :D :D :eek: ;)

Kind Regards David

the alano espanol was the wardog of the spanish conquistadores, they set these dogs upon the indians quite often during the course of their conquests, even going so far as to keep indians prisoner as food for the dogs........of course they later where used as cattle dogs on the huge haciendas throughout spanish america.....the alano was one of two direct descendents of the alaunt, a large, primitive LGD/combat dog which had been brought into europe by the alans from the central asia/caucasus area in the 5th century, the other descendant of the alaunt being the old white english bulldog, which arrived in britain with the norman conquest in 1066. some say there might also be a third direct descendant of the alaunt, that being the dogue de bordeaux of france, which coincidentally was also used as a wardog (and later as a fighting dog in the ring) by the french from the 1200's on.


the alano still survives in spain in its pure form as a cattle dog and sometimes unfortunatly, as a fighting dog as well.....it has given rise directly to at least 4 other breeds, the presa canario (also known as the "dog of prey") of the canary islands, the El Gran Mastin de Borinquen (puerto rican mastiff) of puerto rico, the cimmaron uraguayo of uraguay, and the fila braziliero of brazil. the old southern white bulldog or "plantation" "old time" bulldog and the extinct cuban bloodhound also derive half their lineage from the alano.......

its a sort of sad twist that the original english bulldog no longer exists in its true form, instead having been warped into the grotesque lapdog that is the english bulldog of today. the american bulldog is what the english bulldog used to be.


and there ive gone rambling on about dogs for a half hour or so......

Sorry I can't let the dogs have all the glory!!
Attached from Internet.....our actual cat is too laid back to protect anything!

A tremendous story. I would love to read the source of it. The only valid reference about war dogs that I know, comes from Bernal Diaz del Castillo, a Cortez´s soldier which accompanied him and fought in all the battles for the conquest of Tenochtitlan. He does mention the dogs, but he speaks about the spanish mastiff. I don´t believe the spanish would waste a good slave feeding the dogs...too expensive and unecessary...

Mark Derr's A Dog's History of America (North Point Press: 2004; see Washington Post book review) offers a broad portrait of the use of war dogs in the Americas. According to Derry, the Conquistadors' dogs were "specifically bred and trained to hunt down and disembowel Indians," and they followed the "practice of bringing along on any campaign chained Indian slaves as food for the dogs."


From Pestilence and Genocide (excerpted from the book American Holocaust by David Stannard, Oxford University Press, 1992: "...[Vasco Núñez de Balboa] had his own favorite dog-Leoncico, or "little lion," a reddish-colored cross between a greyhound and a mastiff-that was rewarded at the end of a campaign for the amount of killing it had done. On one much celebrated occasion, Leoncico tore the head off an Indian leader in Panama while Balboa, his men, and other dogs completed the slaughter of everyone in a village that had the ill fortune to lie in their journey's path. Heads of human adults do not come off easily, so the authors of Dogs of the Conquest seem correct in calling this a "remarkable feat," although Balboa's men usually were able to do quite well by themselves. As one contemporary description of this same massacre notes: "The Spaniards cut off the arm of one, the leg or hip of another, and from some their heads at one stroke, like butchers cutting up beef and mutton for market. Six hundred, including the cacique, were thus slain like brute beasts. ...Vasco ordered forty of them to be torn to pieces by dogs."




Atrocities of the Spanish Conquistadors in the West Indies Account from Bartolome de Las Casas (missionary and conquistadore) circa 1513: "...The Spaniards with their horses, their spears and lances, began to commit murders and other strange cruelties. They entered into towns and villages, sparing neither children nor old men and women. They ripped their bellies and cut them to pieces as if they had been slaughtering lambs in a field....Most tried to flee. They tried to hide in the mountains. They tried to flee from these men. Men who were empty of all pity, behaving like savage beasts. They are nothing more than slaughterers and enemies of mankind. These evil men had even taught their hounds, fierce dogs, to tear natives to pieces at first sight...."

another rather interesting, if gory tidbit:



By the time of the American revolution, the use of dogs for repression had been scaled down, although some, most notably Benjamin Franklin, advocated for a revival. In 1775, he wrote to a friend: "Dogs should be used against the Indians. They should be large, strong and fierce.... In case of meeting a party of the enemy, the dogs are all then to be turned loose and set on. They will be fresher and finer for having been previously confined and will confound the enemy a good deal and be very serviceable...."

Ben Franklin's suggestion was not adopted until 1840, when Secretary of War Joel Poinsett authorized the purchase of the 33 bloodhounds from Cuba (at $151.72 a piece) for offensive use against the Seminole Indians and escaped slaves who had taken refuge among them in western Florida and Louisana (see: 1840 political cartoon vilifying the Van Buren administration's decision to use bloodhounds to hunt down Indians).

My wife, Anne's fiercest scowl and her war dog. 1897 Winchester 12 ga trench shotgun.

David, how dare you ? :mad:
Now you owe me image rights. :eek:
Fernando

Dogs are smart! They know when to keep their distance! ;)
You're a trusting man Bill! I stand well back when my mrs has something sharp in her hands!

Guardians of the Swords. my Wardogs, descended from the bandogs of yore:


Pinky (APBT):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...r/44f1dc8a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...r/908f73bc.jpg


Mr. Beast F. McLovin' aka Beastie (American Bully)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...r/80b699b1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...r/e13f726d.jpg

Beastie with Pinky:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...c4e7403b-1.jpg


Beastie's lineage. these aren't mine. just hoping Beastie turns out like them..

Dad
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...r/b92db8c4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...r/9634838e.jpg


and Granddaddy
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...r/1ece18e1.jpg

any questions?

Sixteen inch blade on this bayonet.

BTW bayonets are one of the few bladed weapons illegal to carry in Georgia (USA) because Georgia Sate law says it is illegal to carry any blade made to kill people. Virtually nothing else comes under this heading than bayonets. Asked a SWAT cop.

We are able to carry long guns anywhere we want with no permit. Open carry of pistols is also ok. Concealed pistols require an easy-to-get license. Could also carry a bayonet with this license.

We have some of the most liberal weapons laws in the country. About 20 years ago Kennesaw Georgia (Atlanta suburb) passed a law that every head of household was REQUIRED to own a gun. Crime plummeted and has stayed down in that town.

Unfortunately dogs, including war dogs, are not too welcome inside most businesses, though it is usually ok to walk the on a lease almost anywhere else.

Whoa! Hope that Beastie looks like Dad and especially Granddad! Awesome dogs!

Wow, thats an amazing difference from the UK.

Explains why your good lady doesn't look too shocked at being asked to pose with the Remington.

My mrs isn't safe peeling spuds!
Always cuts herself!
She's smart as a whip but just completely accident prone! Shouldn't be allowed near sharp things!
EVER! ;)

Click this is so funny!

http://io9.com/5115803/brad-pitt-as-...cats-i-support

Lew

Poor Brad,
If he comes around in that outfit, my youngest war cat will devour him at breakfast :eek: .
Fernando

.

A little "R n R" under the influence of the bottle.

War Cats Rule!
 

Here are the furious fighting felines Monk (the Magnificent) and Ravi (the Rave Ravster) fighting it out to the death in flurry of claws and fur.....well....sorta. :o :D

Otto the Bold, gadabout, late night reveller and all round no good dude. :D :D :D

BEWARE vicious Guard Dog heating paws on kitchen stove. :rolleyes: :)

Spanish War Dogs were specifically bred to hunt and utterly destroy americans, english, dutch, etc. and even the very own spanish. They were Weapons of War, not lap doggies. The Perros Dogos were treated even better than the owning soldier's family, and with good reason, they often were the difference between life and death for their owners.

Las Casas was indeed an apostle for the indians, but he was quite the opossite at his arrival, and he didn't extend his mercies to his african slaves either. Most of the things he wrote about were exagerated and embellished tall tales told to him by indians he met, and heard after the umpteenth repetition and agrandizement . Fray Jeronimo Motolinia, who was Las Casas companion during the Conquest, and one of his most acerbic detractors, often stated that Las Casas never saw or was remotely close to any of the scenes he so luridly describes. Nonetheless, lies, exaggerations et al, did serve the purpose at the Cortes of having the "Laws of Indias"written protecting the Americans at least as theoretical equals of the Europeans. Of course, from the cobbled streets of Madrid and Toledo, to the mud and thatched houses of America, those edicts often did very little to protect the americans from the europeans, be them Spanish, English, French or whatever...

Virtually all of the blood and gore atributed to the Spanish come from 16th C English and Dutch propaganda, the so-called Black Legend, and have no historical basis, although they are still being repeated ad-nauseum as historical facts.

Indeed one of the reason Charles I forbade the colonization of America by his German and Dutch vassals, was because they had the quaint custom of surrounding indian villages, killing everyone inside, then taking away whatever they fancied, without any attempts to first approach the natives and asking for either surrender or "vasallaje".

The Spanish Church was horrified by this practice, since the "Indians" so killed didn't have the chance to convet to catholicism, and thus went to Hell to engross the Devil's armies.

OTOH, when you look at the European Wars in Germany, Holland, England and even in Spain (see Cathars/Albigenses), you'll see that taking whole cities (sometime from their own side) and slaughtering their inhabitants was nothing too strange. So, the Conquistadores simply brought to America the kind of War they had learnt in Europe.

Dogs were, and are still trained and used by modern governments to attack and kill enemy forces, and sometimes even defenseless civilians.
Heck, If I were in an urban or jungle combat situation, I'd love to have a Mastin beside me, the enemy's heads be darned.

Best

M

Is it just me Celtan or are you and Pallas perhaps missing the point of this thread. :rolleyes: :shrug:

Pallas, from your quotes, I see that you only have a primary source, which is Fray Bartolomé Las Casas. This quote comes from his little opuscule titled "Brevísima Relación de la Destrucción de las Indias", title which we can traslate freely as "A Very Short Enumeration of the Destruction of the Indies", which was written in 1552 (I have the complete text). Also, I don´t have any doubt about the description of the behaviour of Vasco Nuñez de Balboa. In fact, I don´t have the slightiest doubt about the atrocities, unecessary cuelties, tortures, sistematic rapes and genocide from the conquistadors, which mexicans from my generation learnt about very well from childhood in the school. I can even make a more extensive description of them, quoting primary sources from spanish and indian witness. Only in the 16th Century Las Casas calculated more than 15 million killings of indians in the Caribbean and today´s Mexico. Not to mention the epidemics, which caused more million killings, leaving uninhabited extense areas, previously very populated.

My only point was about the race of the dogs (the kind of breed), and about the killing of war prisioners. Those were you main points in your post. The spaniards do used dogs along all the conquest, in the way already described, but I question they used mainly the spanish alano (alan?), but the mastiff. And yes, when the spaniards were determined to exterminate all the population of a specific village, or only all the men, they feed the dogs with the flesh of the dead. The point which I doubt, is they used man already taken previously as prisioners, or the practice of bringing slaves to war parties only to feed the dogs. That would be "uneconomic". To the eyes of the spaniards, indians were less than animals, but they had specific utilitarian aims in their killings, independently of their cuelty. In battle or at the end of battle they killed for a specific purpose, but they take captives only when determined to use them as slaves. Their greed was superior even to their cruelty, and this is much to say. But if you refer to war prisioners as the men surrendered and inmediately after battle, I agree with you. It seems that there is no much difference among this statements, but I only wanted to precise this points, as I am concerned with historic exactitude. It must be also said that the spanish crown and many churchmen had a deep distaste for many of this practices, and legislative measures, uneffective to a certain point, were taken to stop them. Maybe you can see this as too "academic", but many myths are reproduced in the taste of the "tremendist" or in the "justificationist" inclinations of some people. Maybe my companion forumites see me as too punctillous, but I am convinced that this a forum with a good academic level, and a space where we can discuss historic subjects pertaining to the matter of the threads, in order to know better. Thank you for your attention.
Regards

Gonzalo

Sorry David, I didn´t see your post when writting my last one. It was not my intention to be off-topic, but you know how digressions are made on the road.
My regards

Gonzalo

PD: Just to be precise: there is not any Jerónimo de Motolinia. Did you mean Fray Toribio de Benavente "Motolinia", or Fray Jerónimo de Mendieta, Manolo? Just to be precise, as I don´t mean a "cheap" attack to your erudition.

Some of my war dogs:

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1492/pict1137vq2.jpg

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7360/osoni8.jpg

Gonzalo, The top dog looks like an Aussie "Blue Heeler" or Cattle dog is it? Rod

No war dogs, but still used as a weapon
 

Police dogs are considered as weapons in Belgium. They can make a difference.

And yes.....it hurts, even with the suit on ! :o

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...an/gebeten.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...n/MVC-458F.jpg

And here he finds the 'bad guy'

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...evindtboef.jpg

Meet Spike ! He's Wolf's back-up : a Malinois weighing about 45 kgs.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...uman/spike.jpg

Hi David,


It was not my intention to make you think you have offended or upset me.
I swear i was really amazed with the idea that you thought i was an actual war reindeer :eek: .
I am frustrated; i thought Portuguese humour was closer to that of Brits :shrug: .
I wil try and do better, next time :cool: .
Fernando

He's very cute! Looks like Scooby-Doo

I'm perfectly aware of the thread's aim. I just couldn't remain silent after reading Pallas.

Regarding Gonzalos's mexican apologetic views of the bloody Aztecs and his mindless repetition of anti-spanish Black Legend propaganda, already accepted as such by modern historians: I don't think this is the proper place to discuss those. But I'm fully able and willing to do so through PMs, or even in a separate thread.

Best

M