Balinese/Lombok pedang
 

Yesterday I received my latest find!

It's a very interesting pedang, as you can see for yourself on the images....

It has great patina and a very attractive blade, full of Quran verses and other decorations, inlaid in silver at both sides and the spine.


If someone would dare trying to translate the text on the blade, I will upload some close ups...

Maurice

:eek: ooh! them fullers are gorgeous!

Come on, Maurice, post'em close-ups! :)

Left side of the blade is orientated correctly (sequence right to left, i.e. base of blade to tip).

The right side is upside down - just flip it over (after doing the left side pics) and again go from the base of the blade towards the tip...

OK, I'm glad you can give me the translation than!
:D

Left side of the blade.
 

Left:

Right side of the blade
 

Right:

Backside of the blade
 

Spine:

Superb find!!!

Could you take a picture of the hilt from the side facing down (along the edge)?
It might be the rarer Garuda-variation, instead of the regular makara/flower bud.

Michael

Congrats, Maurice, nice score!

Got the blade "washed" recently? It looks very dark while the inlay is shiny; I'd give the silver on the hilt and scabbard a gentle polish, too.

These pedang come from all over the archipelago - mostly along the arc from Sumatra to Sumbawa with a bit of Banjar/etc. thrown in. Given the Islamic script, I guess we can exclude Bali as the origin of this piece.

Hopefully the inscription will give us some clues... From what I can glean from the pics, the inlay looks a bit crude though. And the inlay is very intact. I'd posit that the inlay got added later but you get a much better idea from handling it up and close - what can you read from the blade, workmanship, patina, etc.?

Regards,
Kai

I hope this image will do for now?
Just made it with my cellphone....

Maurice

Kai, the blade had not been washed recently. You can see the lamination when having a close look to the blade. It also smells not "washed", and it's just the colour I've seen on old blades, which turn out black from dirt or whatsoever...
I recently cleaned a Javanese sword with brass inlay. You could hardly see the brass inlay before. But after giving it a good rub with some dishsoap, the brass inlay looks like new, but the blade is still very black. No matter how hard I rub, it will stay black!
If you mean this with "washed" I think that's what happened.

The inlay is far from crude, but probably you think so because of the close ups. I never have seen a better inlay on these kind of swords.
It looks like it was done with a finewriter, but it isn't. When looking at the images of the whole blade you can see how smooth it looks, and not crude as done recently.
The inlay like this, is done the way it was occurring on other 19th century blades.
Also when you look on the last image of #5, you can see a part which isn't rubbed as good as the other part of the blade.

Ofcourse I agree the inlay could be recenter as the sword, but it's very good craftmanship and also done a long, long time ago..

About the silver, I leave it as it is. Love the patina more as the shiny silverwork.. :0

Sometimes you've got to have it in hands. This one is such piece you can't show it on images. You have to see and feel it.
The blade is very smoothly forged, high quality. Also the inlay is very good work, and therefore it's all there and not (partly) gone allready (as seen on quality inlay of old blades). This in combination with an enormous patina on the handle (which I've not seen often on these pedangs, probably because people cleaning the silverwork and decide to clean the whole handle instead?), tells me I need to keep this one in my own collection, though it isn't Borneo and I'm not attracted to these kind of pedangs normally!

Maurice

Excellent craftsmanship on this sort of pedang, with a gorgeous blade. The dark looks more to be patina than 'a wash', though as Kai suggested, I have seen these washed to highlight the inlay.

If I were a betting man I would say the inlay was done within the last 50 years and far younger then the sword. The Arabic makes it somehow seem Sumatran to me, but of course it could have originated in so many places as these styles were supremely popular.

Congrats on a truly nice pick up!

Please see:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...umatran+swords

Yes, but not in this case. This one hasn't been washed. It's definately patina.
Beneath the surface you can see a very nice pattern in the blade, but it's hard to get it on camera. And I decided to leave the piece as it is, without any cleaning whatsoever.

Why do you think it's 50 years ago done? (just curious).
I think it would be done much rougher if it was only 50 years ago.
But who knows, maybe we get an translation with a date or maybe it says "made in Taiwan" :-)
Till than I believe it's much more older, though not as old as the blade.

I'm allowed to post next image. It's from a sikin panjang. Look at the craftmanship. Definately 19th century, but it looks "rough" also. But this is because it's done as thin and delicately as the inlay in my pedang.
I would like to see the inlay craftmanship in other blades which should be 19th century or older, just to see the difference (but than I want examples with as delicately inlay as the pedang).

Ofcourse I knew your thread: Very nice pieces Charles: I specially like pedang 2 and 6.

Maurice

Nope, I meant lower (from the ferrule and up).

Michael

PS It's from Lombok, not Sumatra.

Oh yes,....
Again with my celphone.

Thank you for noticing it's Lombok.

Maurice

VVV,

I am curious what about this piece assures its origin is from Lombok? Are there characteristics of it that make that a definite?

I am also curious what the indicators are for the origin of this piece. How would a similar pedang from Sumatra differ? It's not that i doubt Michael, but certainly it is more helpful for future considerations if we can all come to an understanding of what these indicators actually are. :)
If indeed these inlays are Islamic text i would agree that Bali is unlikely while Lombok is still a possibility. Thought ethnically diverse it does seem that a small majority of the inhabitants are indeed Muslim.
In any case a very nice sword. :)

I am with Charles in thinking this may be from Sumatra due to the Arabic. Several times "Allah" is present, perhaps in some bismallah or in Qur'anic verse. It would be better that an Arabic reader try to render some type of translation. I don't think it is jawi (though I could be wrong).

Nice item Maurice!

My opinion, Sumatra. For sure.
The inlay can be done ​​later, but seems to be old.
(Islamic text)

John

Most important, the original collection tag said Lombok on it. ;-)
Otherwise, the hilt is more square than the ones usually seen from Sumatra (but often seen on Lombok) and the blade has fullers. On Lombok the Sasak are Muslim.

If you look at the lower part of the hilt there is a beak and a bird face (Garuda). I suspect that this also is a Lombok-feature.
Maybe Maurice can bring it out better with new pictures?

Michael

Do we know when it was originally collected in Lombok?

I think you're right michael.
Perhaps the text-inlay done after the Dutch intervention in 1894.

I am not necessarily saying it's Sumatran, I just didn't understand why it had to be Lombok, and I must have missed anything about a tag.

Good observations.

Yes Michael, that's right! :-)

I will make some decent pictures within the next few days of the handle.

It has floral leaf motifs all over, but looking at the shape there's indeed some kind of mouth visible and it looks like I can see some kind of nose? (just like a macara, only instead of the upper jaw it's tog an elobarated lower jaw).
But maybe it's just my imagination and I see the wrong presentation in it.

Also I looks that there's a bit in the front missing. But if so very long time ago as it has the same patina. But it might be that it's all intact and it meant carved like this...

Maurice

Hi John,

Thanks for your approval of depicting the inlay of the sikin panjang!
Let's hope we find somebody who can tell us more about the text....

Maurice

Unfortunately I don't know anything about it or it's provenance...

Michael's remark about the tag was meant like a little joke.
There was a tag saying Lombok on it, but it was a recent one so I detached it.

Maurice

yowza!!! heck of pedang, bro! nice catch!!! would be interested at the translation on this pedang

Thanks Ron,

Still waiting if here's somebody who would like to translate it for us...

Maurice

Maurice,

Just for clarity because forums and emails carry no connotation and can be easily misinterpreted...like I did not understand that MM was joking about the tag!...I have no problem with anything that has been said about the sword, but if there are specific characteristics that make this a "for sure" Lombok made piece, of course I want to learn about them. I think I see what VVV is getting at about a more "squared" appearance, but I think we would need more complete pics and perhaps side-by-side examples.

^^^ Yeah, what he said. It is my hope that these forums are a learning experience and while these are not exactly the center of my collecting experience i have a great interest with other weapons of the area and would love to understand what the difference are between Sumatran and Lombak versions of these pedangs. Michael, if you are able to put up comparative photos of hilts from these distinct origins that would be awesome, thanks. :)

In the 1950's these swords were usually given by collectors and British dealers as either "Java" or "Malaya".

I do not believe that either of these attributions were necessarily correct, but I think probably most people accepted this at the time.

In recent years I think most collectors attribute this sword type to Sumatera, I don't know exactly where in Sumatera, but I've read a Palembang attribution somewhere.

In this Forum I have seen attributions of Lombok, and other places in the Indonesian Archipelago.

My area of confusion is this:- what is the connection between Lombok and some unidentified location in Sumatera? Why Sumatera and then the jump across Jawa and Bali to Lombok? I might be missing something here, but I can find neither logical cause nor sociological connection for this very wide placement of the same style of sword.

If anybody ever reaches the position of being able to give a verifiable point of geographic origin for this type of sword, as distinct from an opinion, I think it might be possible that we find the style originating in Sumatera and travelling as items of trade to other areas within the Archipelago. This would be pretty recent trade I think, perhaps within the last 200 years. These are very attractive swords and would very probably have been appreciated by many people across the Archipelago.

By "geographic point of origin" my meaning is that the sword was made in an identifiable place and used or worn there.

In respect of the sword that generated this thread, I have often seen this type of calligraphic ornamentation, and mock calligraphic ornamentation, on various types of Indonesian weapons. Inlay of this type has most often been done very recently with the sole purpose of increasing the commercial value of an otherwise unremarkable item. The two places where I know this "enhancement" to be carried out now and in the past are Surabaya and Jogjakarta, but it is undoubtedly done in other places also.

I am also of the opinion that this kind of Pedang originated around Palembang. A case in point is that of those found in museums most often they have been collected in expeditions from that region. They are also found in other areas, most often Lombok but also in coastal South Borneo (among the Malays) and in Peninsular Malaysia. Local production and variations of a popular blade is a phenomenon also found for other weapons of this region.

To not the let this thread drift too far away I would prefer that Maurice first gets his translation, and we discuss the age and purpose of adding Qur'anic quotes on the blade.
Maybe after that we can add other reference pictures and discuss hilt and blade variations among the different regions.

Michael

Michael, my remarks on calligraphic enhancement of blades is directed only at the particular type of calligraphic enhancement that we can see on this blade.

I believe most of us would be aware that it was not unusual for blades to bear other calligraphic enhancements that date from much earlier periods and which were placed on the blades for purposes other than the one I have mentioned.

However, I will make this further comment. Over the years I have often referred these blades to people I know in Solo for translation. One of these people is a very learned man who is able to read a number of different script variations. It is seldom that the inscriptions found on blades that I have personally handled are written accurately, in that sometimes the actual quotation will be wrong, at at other times the letters used to write the quotation will be formed in a way that makes a nonsense of what has been intended to be written. Sometimes the person to whom I have turned for assistance is able to guess what has been intended, at other times the opinion is that whoever put the inscription on the blade did not really know how to write and was putting on symbols that simply looked like letters to somebody who also could not read.

As to how a discussion in this Forum progresses, perhaps I am in error, but I have been under the impression that those of us who contribute to a discussion may contribute as we see fit, not wait until we are given some oblique cue that lets us know we are now permitted to say that which we wish to say.

I do most sincerely hope that Maurice will receive an accurate translation of the letters on his blade, but I do not believe that it is in anybody's best interests for us to sit on our keyboards and wait until this event occurs.

Regarding production of these swords in places other than original point of origin, yes, it is entirely possible that the style could be produced in places other than the place where it originated, but in the identification of other places where such swords might have been made I feel it might be quite difficult at this point in time to nail down a variation to a particular location. It is entirely possible that all apparent stylistic variation could in fact be quality variation, and the swords may all have been manufactured in the same area by different people.

I've spent a bit of time going through my references and quite frankly I cannot find very much at all on this particular type of sword. I would welcome the identification of reliable references by those who are better informed than I in respect of these particular swords.

Alan,

Your comments on talismanic writing etc. is indeed a well known and quite universal phenomenon both in the Muslim (Arabic) as well as the Catholic (Latin) periphery. Quite often the one actually making the inlay was not also a highly learned religious scholar.
My comment on in what order to answer all the different questions brought up in this thread is of course only how I prefer to respond to it myself (out of respect for Maurice's original question that started this thread) and only relevant for how I choose to participate in this discussion.

Michael

Hi Maurice,

first, sorry about my late reply to your very interesting pedang. A shame that the handle is broken. Here some of my thoughts about it. I also think that it is from Lombok, me was told in Indonesia that this pedang with this type of handle coming from Lombok, have also a look to this thread, special #16: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=pedang. In the beginning of the 90ties last century you can find a lot of this pedangs in Bali antique shops and every time it was told they are from Lombok. Of course this isn't a guarantee that it is indeed like this. :shrug:
I am with you that the inlays are done well, this could be a indication that they are old. I have had such a pedang with inlays as well (it's long time sold already), when i have bought it I was sure that the inlays are old, later I get doubts but frankly said the inlays weren't fine like by your example. But what I remember well, the blade was like yours very black stained. This is IMHO done to highlight the silver inlays. So I don't think that the black surface is old patina. This could be done in old times but as well recently. Like Alan I have seen blades with such inlays where I have been sure that this inlays are added for a better selling-price purpose but on the other hand I think to have seen blades with inlays which have been early collected but can't remember where.

Sorry that I am not able to give you new informations.

Best regards,

Detlef

Charles, ofcourse Michael was joking about that, as you could see in the wink at the end of it ( ;-) ).
Here you see the photo which Michael was referring to, and indeed mentioned Lombok in it, though it was a recent tag for sure...

I also would like to know more about the differences of the handles, but this is the only one I have, so I have no comparison to post, only what everyone could see in the former threads..

One connection could be the Dutch, who were present and travelling between the Indonesian archipellago isles in very early days and for long time, and also often there were native people with them on their travels to other islands. From here we allready would have a link, and therefore a connection of intercultural "pollination" and "copying" of for instance swords....



Therefore we need an explanation of the text by somebody.
From there we could say more about it. If somebody would use a "mock calligraphic ornamentation", I don't think it would be done so intensive and so fine as on this pedang.
If you have seen often "this type of calligraphic ornamentations" as you mentions, I would like you to post some images here for comparison if possible.
I also have images from pedangs (of other collections, and therefore not propriate to post here), of which I'm sure it's definately not as old and finely done as mine. Also it's done much more crudely, and not so intensively.
In comparison with the one in this thread, I never have seen a pedang ornamented as labour-intensive and decoratively done as this one. So I doubt it's only supposed to be a "mock calligraphy".
But this is only from my common sense and I would love to know more and it might be when we have a translation...

Thanks for your input!

Maurice

Finally found some time of taking some pictures Michael!
Indeed I now see a kind of bird in it, with a large crest on it's head (which I thought would be the beak in the first instance.

I also added an image (the bottom one) of the backside of the handle above the silver sleeve.

Here the images!

Maurice

Hi Detlef, I don't mind. Indeed a pity, but it happend a very long time ago considering the patination, which is the same as the rest of the handle.
And old breakoffs make antique blades have more character..... :-)


Thank you for sharing this phenomenom.
Though I would rather be more happy to have more information from old articles, images, drawings etc. etc., as from people selling stuff in "antique shops"...
Till now I don't have an old article yet which describes more about these pedangs and their origin. And we might never find one as there isn't one?
Or maybe something will show up which would surprise us and give a more better insight here.
What I did learn in the years of collecting till now, is to have a very good nose of "old patina". And this one has very fine glossy patina, and the blade is also of a high quality (as mentioned very difficult to show on pictures).
But I would love to compare different kind (recent and old) inlay with eachother.


I'm sure this happened. But I need comparison images of swords with "recent inlays" and swords which are early collected with "old inlays". This to have a close research on them if I've the right feeling or I'm hitting it wrong.
So if you find the blades with old inlays and early collected, I would be thankfull if you post them here.

Maurice