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-   -   Guianan Macana Club for comment. (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14145)

Atlantia 30th July 2011 04:14 PM

Guianan Macana Club for comment.
 
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Excuse the pictures they seem to make it 'glow' with colour. It's actually much more subdued and the bindings are somewhat browned with age. Lots of indications of age, dryness of the wood, patina, small age splits etc.

Weight: 735g. Length: 36cm. Bound with hand spun plant fibres (raw cotton I'd guess!)
From a reputable source who acquired it directly from an old Dutch collection.
Original collector described it as:
"British Guyana, Indian war club (Macana) C.1900."
I'd be interested to know if the date is possible to verify?
I know these don't show up too often, so I thought you might like to see it.

Atlantia 30th July 2011 04:16 PM

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A couple of other examples (pictures) I managed to find (not mine).

Tim Simmons 30th July 2011 04:54 PM

:cool: I need one of those. Yes that is cotton. Amazon clubs have either cotton, sisel or palm fiber {raphia}

Tim Simmons 30th July 2011 05:20 PM

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This site is really helpful.

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/vi...lock%20Club%22

Scroll down to (NMAI o58277.000) belaying pin style club. I think this may identify this club 20 inches long.

fearn 30th July 2011 05:32 PM

Hi Tim,

Neat club!

You may want to look up kanaima . This club is similar to one used on dark shamans (see the pic in this article). Or it may just be a war club. Regardless, there may be more angles to this.

Best,

F

Tim Simmons 30th July 2011 05:40 PM

Thanks, ordered and on its way.

Atlantia 30th July 2011 06:59 PM

Hi Tim,

Thanks I'll read through that in a mo :)
Any thoughts on the decoration?

Hi Fearn ,

The club in the picture is like mine, not Tim's isn't it?
Are you mixing us up? I can understand you assuming any club thread is Tims ;)

KuKulzA28 30th July 2011 07:36 PM

Did the Caribbean Caribs use the same style club? I heard they called theirs a "boutou"??

Just curious :shrug:

fearn 30th July 2011 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia
Hi Tim,

Thanks I'll read through that in a mo :)
Any thoughts on the decoration?

Hi Fearn ,

The club in the picture is like mine, not Tim's isn't it?
Are you mixing us up? I can understand you assuming any club thread is Tims ;)

Yep, I got confused.

Anyway, AFAIK, people in Guyana do use those square headed clubs on the heads of known or suspected Kanaima sorcerers. That's why I suggested reading Neil Whitehead's book. It's pretty gruesome stuff, and I suspect there's a reason his author pic shows him holding one of those clubs.

F

Atlantia 30th July 2011 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn
Yep, I got confused.

Anyway, AFAIK, people in Guyana do use those square headed clubs on the heads of known or suspected Kanaima sorcerers. That's why I suggested reading Neil Whitehead's book. It's pretty gruesome stuff, and I suspect there's a reason his author pic shows him holding one of those clubs.

F

:eek:
Jesus! So even a modern one might have actually killed someone!

Thats a bit unsettling.

Notice how they stand up on their own? Like a little wooden bottle of bad karma.

fearn 30th July 2011 09:12 PM

Well, if the edge of the macana isn't dented, I wouldn't worry about it.

That said, if you read about what the kanaima do, it makes sense. It's sort of like Van Helsing holding up a stake in his author picture, except that the kanaima are real.

F

Tim Simmons 30th July 2011 09:36 PM

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Jessica Van Helsing---- Stephin Beacham---- dracula ad 1972, I say!!!!!

Atlantia 30th July 2011 10:46 PM

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The design has one dot in each section on three of the sides, but on the fourth it's different.

Atlantia 2nd August 2011 03:08 PM

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Have investigated the bindings and there is no damage, just 'bunching up', so all it needed was to be carefully teased back into place.
I think it's looking quite good now, what do you think?

Robert 2nd August 2011 04:52 PM

Great club Gene, and with those square corners and its weight a real head knocker !!:eek: It really does make a big difference in how it looks now that the binding has been put back in order. Good work and a very nice addition to your ever growing collection.

Robert

fearn 2nd August 2011 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia
The design has one dot in each section on three of the sides, but on the fourth it's different.

Is this the "this face towards enemy mark?

F

Atlantia 3rd August 2011 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman
Great club Gene, and with those square corners and its weight a real head knocker !!:eek: It really does make a big difference in how it looks now that the binding has been put back in order. Good work and a very nice addition to your ever growing collection.

Robert

Thanks mate :)

Definately wouldn't want to feel it on my head!! The mrs doesn't like it! Says she gets a 'bad vibe' off of it!

Best
Gene

Atlantia 3rd August 2011 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn
Is this the "this face towards enemy mark?

F


Hi Fearn

LOL!! I should have known.
;)
Best
Gene

VANDOO 3rd August 2011 04:49 AM

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CONGRADULATIONS!! :) THESE ARE HARD TO COME BY, I HAVE ONLY SEEN ONE FOR SALE IN THE LAST 30 YEARS GIVE OR TAKE AND IT WAS A VERY POOR EXAMPLE. YOURS IS FIRST CLASS AND WITH GOOD PATINA AND UNUSUAL TO HAVE BINDINGS IN SUCH GOOD SHAPE. HERE ARE SOME PICTURES OF OTHER EXAMPLES AND FORMS FROM GUYANA BRAZIL.

Atlantia 3rd August 2011 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO
CONGRADULATIONS!! :) THESE ARE HARD TO COME BY, I HAVE ONLY SEEN ONE FOR SALE IN THE LAST 30 YEARS GIVE OR TAKE AND IT WAS A VERY POOR EXAMPLE. YOURS IS FIRST CLASS AND WITH GOOD PATINA AND UNUSUAL TO HAVE BINDINGS IN SUCH GOOD SHAPE. HERE ARE SOME PICTURES OF OTHER EXAMPLES AND FORMS FROM GUYANA BRAZIL.


Hi Vandoo,

Very kind of you to say so :) Thank you.
Do you have any thoughts on the painted markings?
Best
Gene

spiral 3rd August 2011 02:54 PM

Rare piece Gene! I wonder if these are made of Greenheart? Thats from around that region & incredibly hard. Is that a tree borer or termite hole in it? or something from a dead knot?

It looks in amazing condition, good find. Ive never seen one before.

Spiral

Atlantia 3rd August 2011 04:30 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral
Rare piece Gene! I wonder if these are made of Greenheart? Thats from around that region & incredibly hard. Is that a tree borer or termite hole in it? or something from a dead knot?

It looks in amazing condition, good find. Ive never seen one before.

Spiral

Hi Jonathan,

Thanks mate.
I have a bit of a weakness for buying weapons if they are of a type I've not owned before.
This macana is a first for me, although I have to admit that my first impression of these is of a half finished chair-leg and I am finding it difficult to 'like' :shrug:
Also, I do like to bring things that are not often seen to 'show and tell'!
Being a member here is clearly bad for my bank balance! ;)

There is a knot on one side, have a loook at the holes, I'm really not sure?

Best
Gene

fearn 3rd August 2011 05:41 PM

Actually, joking aside, those multiple dots may be there to tell the wielder to have that face away from the strike, not facing it (they should see the multiple dots). That way, the knot and the bug hole are compressed if the club hits, not stretched, if the club is used.

F

VANDOO 3rd August 2011 05:59 PM

THE CLUB APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN MADE OF THE TRUNK OF A SMALL TREE NOTE THE GROWTH RINGS IN THE END. ONE SIDE HAS A KNOT AND SOME DAMMAGE WHERE THEY WERE TRYING TO WORK THE KNOT DOWN THAT WAS TOO DEEP TO SAND OUT. THE TWO HOLES COME FROM SOME SORT OF BEETLE LARVA WHICH IS NOT UNUSUAL. THE END APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN CUT WITH SOME SORT OF CRUDE SAW OR PERHAPS WORKED DOWN WITH A FILE DEFINITELY NOT CHOPPED WITH AN AX OR MACHETE. THE TRIBAL MARKINGS COULD BE DENOTING THE TRIBE, FAMILY OR INDIVIDUAL OR EVEN A CHARM TO PROTECT AND BRING VICTORY TO ITS OWNER.
IF IT NEVER GROWS ON YA LET ME KNOW AS I WOULD DEFINITELY BE INTERESTED. :D

spiral 3rd August 2011 08:25 PM

Cheers Gene, Vandoos sewed it up for you already. ;)

Spiral

Atlantia 3rd August 2011 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn
Actually, joking aside, those multiple dots may be there to tell the wielder to have that face away from the strike, not facing it (they should see the multiple dots). That way, the knot and the bug hole are compressed if the club hits, not stretched, if the club is used.

F

What a great idea :)
Thanks Fearn

Atlantia 3rd August 2011 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO
THE CLUB APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN MADE OF THE TRUNK OF A SMALL TREE NOTE THE GROWTH RINGS IN THE END. ONE SIDE HAS A KNOT AND SOME DAMMAGE WHERE THEY WERE TRYING TO WORK THE KNOT DOWN THAT WAS TOO DEEP TO SAND OUT. THE TWO HOLES COME FROM SOME SORT OF BEETLE LARVA WHICH IS NOT UNUSUAL. THE END APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN CUT WITH SOME SORT OF CRUDE SAW OR PERHAPS WORKED DOWN WITH A FILE DEFINITELY NOT CHOPPED WITH AN AX OR MACHETE. THE TRIBAL MARKINGS COULD BE DENOTING THE TRIBE, FAMILY OR INDIVIDUAL OR EVEN A CHARM TO PROTECT AND BRING VICTORY TO ITS OWNER.
IF IT NEVER GROWS ON YA LET ME KNOW AS I WOULD DEFINITELY BE INTERESTED. :D


Excellent analysis Vandoo!
That beetle larva must have 'chops' like a router! Wouldn't want to wake up with one in my ear ;)
Thanks mate, I must admit that a few people have expressed an interest in it, I'll definately let you all know when I get bored with it.

Best
Gene

Tim Simmons 31st August 2011 06:39 PM

5 Attachment(s)
This club finished on ebay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1706847312...84.m1423.l2649

Origin could be many places but could also be related to the clubs in this link.

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/vi...lock%20Club%22

37cm long and 400g much the same as many knobkerry but lacking lever action. What I find intersting is that there does seem to be a tradition somewhere here? My example almost identical in form is 50cm long and 700g. Just curious!

Tim Simmons 31st August 2011 07:05 PM

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I might be on a wild goose chase but I think the wood may be a link? There is a black element in the wood, seen in the clubs of the link, in mine and also I think seen in the pommel of the example Gene shows us.

fearn 1st September 2011 04:13 AM

Or it's a species of shillelagh. I agree that it could be from almost anywhere.

Best,

F

Atlantia 1st September 2011 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons
This club finished on ebay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1706847312...84.m1423.l2649

Origin could be many places but could also be related to the clubs in this link.

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/vi...lock%20Club%22

37cm long and 400g much the same as many knobkerry but lacking lever action. What I find intersting is that there does seem to be a tradition somewhere here? My example almost identical in form is 50cm long and 700g. Just curious!


It's a difficult one buddy.
I'd say that I've seen many similarly crude 'root ball' clubs over the years, and they've had a myriad of stories with them.
Fishermans priest, Poachers club, Shillelagh etc.....
Not to mention non-uk origins.
I honestly don't know how you'd tell them apart, short of analysing the wood.
I did think that your example having the lanyard hole was probobly not south american, but then reading through the document PDF, the 'axe' shaped one has a similar hole for a wrist strap.

Hmmmmm......

Tim Simmons 2nd September 2011 04:31 PM

I would really like to test the wood. The last time a few years ago, it cost £100 at Kew. Sadly I cannot justify this piece with empty wallet. Got free entry with the enquiry.

Atlantia 2nd September 2011 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons
I would really like to test the wood. The last time a few years ago, it cost £100 at Kew. Sadly I cannot justify this piece with empty wallet. Got free entry with the enquiry.

You mean you waved a club and they waived the entry fee? ;)

KuKulzA28 23rd September 2011 07:06 PM

This reading may be of interest to those who have interest in Native American, or more specifically the shamanism in the Guyanese area from an anthropological perspective... I know it is definitely interesting to me so far.


fearn 24th September 2011 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28
This reading may be of interest to those who have interest in Native American, or more specifically the shamanism in the Guyanese area from an anthropological perspective... I know it is definitely interesting to me so far.


Great book, if more than a little unsettling. You can also check the links in posting #5

F

KuKulzA28 25th September 2011 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn
Great book, if more than a little unsettling. You can also check the links in posting #5

F

Yes, I've read the article, and I am considering getting the book as well. Guyana is a country of great interest to me, and I am always trying to learn more about it...

fearn 26th September 2011 06:40 AM

I read the book, but I checked it out of a library years ago. As I noted earlier in this thread, I sympathize with Whitehead for owning a club that was designed to kill kanaima. It's primarily because of what the kanaima did to their victims, and that's only because they did start stalking him before he left Guyana.

F

KuKulzA28 26th September 2011 12:59 PM

I'm curious... weren't these aputu/macana around and being used prior to European invasion? So was the club both a self-defense Kanaima killer and warrior's weapon all along? How prevalent was the kanaima practice historically? I was under the impression it became more significant post European invasion... socially working as a reaffirmation of aboriginal power, spiritually as the destructive compliment to healing and life, and physically as a very cruel, torturous way to die...

:shrug:

It's interesting that despite the availability of machetes and guns, that they'd still be using aputu - but not much can beat good old impact weapons at what they do - crush, bludgeon, and smash!

Atlantia 28th September 2011 06:26 PM

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It now has its own little custom stand

Atlantia 29th September 2011 10:54 PM

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Guyana Macana Club from Christies auction. Click for full details.

"A GUYANA CLUB
Macana
Of waisted quadrangular form, finely incised ornament on a cross-hatched ground to each side of blade and flared butt, twisted cotton wrist thong, dark patina
38.5cm. long "


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