Ladrang remodelled?
 

Hi All,

i was wondering if there are good images of Surakarta or Solo Ladrang warangka that has been altered or remodelled after the Angkup was lost?

Hope to gain some more info as i can't find it on the internet. Or is it common to replace the whole dress of the Keris when a warangka has damage that is beyond restoring it to acceptable apereance?

regards,

Martin

Hello Martin,

Never have seen such an approach, sorry. I have had similar problems before, see here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=keris+kebo
Like you can see I've given the blade a used and refurbished scabbard.

Regards,
Detlef

Hi Detlef,

the loss of material at your Ladrang example is huge, i mean when the curved tip is gone broken off. Are there examples of chaninging the ladrang in a less elaborate form. by shaping the front more round or so.

regards, Martin

Hi Martin,

I understand correct, like I said, I never have seen such a modification.

Regards,
Detlef

Hopefully Alan Maisey will tag in because i am pretty sure i remember him talking about such modifications being made to a damaged ladrang in the past. My apologies Alan if i have misremembered this.

Are you referring to this thread David?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=repair

See post #25 and #26

Thanks David and JustYS,

i read the thread with lot's of interest and the results are very good especially both examples of restoration work. As i was trained as a furniture restorer and worked in the field for several years before becomming a teacher in furniture restoration in Amsterdam i know that a very allmost invisible result can be made depending on the skills of the craftsmen. We had a rule of six feet six inches, what is not noticeable in six feet and it can be seen with six inches distance was an ok job.

My problem is that most of the woods used in the creation of wronko are not available in the Netherlands, so we have to find similar looking woods, and then i only go for the right grain colour can be manipulated dark to light or light stained with dyes to the desired colour.

But i am interested if when the curved tip is gone if there are examples of wronko being carved to a slightly different form to keep the dress presentable. My goal is to visit Indonesia next year and would love to go out to buy different pieces of wood used in Keris and ship it to the Netherlands for future restoration jobs. Have to find out which woods are not on the CITES list as otherwise i will have a lot of problems too.

Thank you for responding to my question and have a nice day.

regards, Martin

I'm very pressed for time at the moment, in Bali helping a gentleman from Jakarta. This is not an 8 hour day.

Posts 9 & 10 in this thread might be useful:-

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=kacir

I have seen one old Branggah from Yogyakarta without Angkup, which was, so far as I can tell, in its original state. I own one from Pasisir. There is a Balinese form of such Wrongko, and there is a depiction of something lke that on Candi Sukuh.

Till now I have not seen a Solo Landrang without Angkup.

Thanks, for trying to give some info. Mr. Maisey and Gustav. I will post a picture of a sheath I can’t identify to where it is from it looks different it’s the one on the right. The Keris and parts I bought recently.

Not at all, though that is indeed a magnificent repair job. Alan has given a hint as to what i am talking about, which is cutting down a Ladrang sheath to a Kacir style to remove the damaged areas altogether.

Last additions

I think i found it, searching for Kacir style and i guess this is how they used to reshape the Warangka.

https://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13435

Sorry, I strongly doubt.

Hi Detlef,

why?

Hi Martin,

Because the shown wrongko type is a legitimately wrongko form and not a recarved ladrang form. ;)

Regards,
Detlef

Thanks Detlef,

i will keep on searching, I believe they sometimes changed a damaged warangka by just altering the appeareance of the form to keep the dress.

But i might be wrong and think of it from western traditions where broken things where repaired or changed due to the damage or changing taste.

In respect of other wrongko forms that lack a defined angkup, whether the sans angkup form is original or is the result of remodeling.

1) Attached is the Candi Sukuh form referred to in post #9. The form from which this form is probably derived is quite similar to the form that we now know as Bugis, and can be seen in the Candi Panataran reliefs. See images.

2) Central Javanese ladrang forms that do have a defined angkup but that have lost this angkup are never original creations, a Central Javanese ladrangan without angkup is always the result of an alteration, the loss of the angkup makes the keris unsuited for formal wear & for court wear, in some non-formal settings, such as wear in a village non-formal situation it could be acceptable, often this loss of angkup has been done by a dealer in preparation for sale, if for sale to a local, in the expectation that the local buyer will redress to suit his own needs & taste, if for sale to a cultural outsider, because the cultural outsider will not not know the difference in any case.

3) The Balinese wrongko form that does have a very slight "angkup" is the Sesrengatan form, it is the direct Balinese equivalent of the Javanese ladrangan form, it is used for formal & official occasions, & the same restrictions on use for a damaged and/or modified wrongko apply in Bali as for in Jawa.

See here:-

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=26082

4) For North Coast variations both original & modified from other forms, see here:-

https://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13435

Mr. Maisey,

thank you for the thorough explanation, and yes with my western view i did not think of all the rules in according the wear and use of the Keris in daily life in Java.
I have to find then a suitable dress for the Keris that i have where the Angkup was lost. Did you ever had a new sarong made for a Keris in Java? And is it allowed to bring a Keris blade to Indonesia for having made a new dress for it?

best wishes, Martin

Hi Martin,

To bring it inside Indonesia won't be the problem but to bring it out again could become maybe a problem. Post Indonesia doesn't ship any blades out from Indonesia.
On the other hand, a friend brought a sword with me to Germany from Indonesia/Bali.

Regards,
Detlef

Hi Detlef,

does that also count when you go to Indonesia, and let a sarong be made to fit an antique blade so you take it with you home?

I think that the risk is minimal when you have the keris in your luggage, like I said a friend brought me a sword inside his luggage without any problem when he came to Germany.

Regards,
Detlef

Detlef, since 1966 I have entered Indonesia through Ngurah Rai airport in Den Pasar, more than 100 times, and I have entered Indonesia through Jakarta perhaps 10 times.

In 2018 I entered Indonesia through Ngurah Rai, I had with me about 20 or 30 keris and other antique edged weapons that I was bringing into Indonesia for restoration.

On my Customs declaration form I declared these keris & other items:- it is required to declare all sharp & or pointed objects, in certain circumstances this declaration can be interpreted as a requirement to declare such things as scissors or pocket knives, even the mini Swiss army knife that is about 2" long.

You must declare, if you do not, your undeclared item can be seized even though it is perfectly legal to own & carry in Indonesia.

OK. In 2018 I declared what I was carrying. I am 80+ years old, I dress as a businessman who is about to attend an important meeting, I speak Bahasa Indonesia fluently and I understand the correct way to behave.

The Customs officers who handled my declaration took me & my luggage into a private office and conducted a cross examination that lasted for around 2 hours. Central to the examination was the fact that I did not have Indonesian/Balinese police clearance to bring weapons into Bali.

However, I did have a NSW police document that permitted me bring edged weapons back into Australia, permitted the Customs officers to look at this document, but I did not permit them to handle it or copy it.

Eventually I was permitted to leave the airport and enter Indonesia.

I have also exited Indonesia on many occasions, sometimes carrying very large numbers of keris & other weapons. On most occasions I have not encountered anything but a cursory examination of what I have had with me, but sometimes the examination has been quite probing in respect of age and/or cultural importance of one or another item carried, on these occasions I have handled the matter in the traditional Indonesian manner.

On two occasions I have been detained & handed over to a highly ranked duty officer who has started our interview by insisting that I return to Jakarta and obtain the relevant export clearance documents. Again, these meetings have been settled in the traditional manner.

Indonesian Customs & other officials must not ever be taken lightly, to do so is to risk making your visit to Indonesia very much longer than you intended it to be, and/or very much more expensive.

These posts will be my response to points made in post #18.

The sheath from Candi Panataran relief is very close, one can say, of the same type, as the sheath of Pagarruyung Keris. I will leave it to viewer's imagination how much exactly this sheath resembles "the form that we now know as Bugis".

I fail to see the close relationship between the sheath forms from Candi Panataran and Candi Sukuh. Candi Sukuh can be interpreted either as Sandhang Walikat or as a Ladrangan, both readings endorsed by A. G. Maisey in these pages at different times. I would interprete the curved back part in Candi Sukuh carving as Godhong, part of Ladrangan sheath, because this Wrongko has carvings known as Widheng Kasatriyan, and I have yet to see a Sandhang Walikat with W K.

I cannot recognize a trace of Angkup in this carving.

There is a Keris from Yogyakarta, presented by Raffles to George IV when Prince Regent in 1813. There are descriptions, which add, it was taken in the loothing of Kraton a year earlier. I was able to see this Keris, and I couldn't see any traces of alterations to the sheath. Everybody acquainted with the shape of a Ladrangan from Yogyakarta - Branggah - will see, that this physically cannot be an alteration of a lost Angkup - because the "lip" of the sheath goes too moch forward for an Yogyakarta style Angkup.

Attached another high quality conventional Branggah image, taken from the same angle.

I didn't mean the Sesrengatan form, I mean this one, which is rare, but can be found from Eastern Java till Lombok.

The way how this Pasisir sheath is carved leads me to think, that its front part could be original - the edges, or the "lip" are pointing downwards, at the same time have too much volume at the needed place for a standard Ladrangan with Angkup. Nevertheless, this one could be the only one sheath from all examples I presented (and have seen in person), where I would consider a complete recarving some longer time ago, because patina on all parts of Atasan is genuine.

Nice photos Gustav.

I will comment on these as soon as I have time, at the moment I'm only a couple of days back from Bali & my inbox is over-flowing with money producing work, so when that is turned into folding stuff I'll post a comment or three.

However, I do have one question, you mention the "Pagaruyung keris", I do not know this keris, do you have a photo?

Pagaruyung is in Sumatera, it is a Minangkabau location.

Alan, it is the Keris depicted together with its sheath and the well known dagger. Both were the heirlooms held in Pagarruyung (and still are?).

Thanks Gustav, I can see what you mean now, yes, there are similarities between the "Pagaruyung Keris" and the Candi Panataran carving, and there is very little similarity between the Pagaruyung example & the Bugis form.

I will remark that many people who have seen the Candi Panataran example have formed the same opinion as have I about this scabbard, that is, that the Candi Panataran example bears a high degree of similarity to the Bugis scabbard form. Many of these people have formed that opinion without any knowledge of my photographs.

You might see this matter differently, & I have no problem with this.

Alan, it doesn't wonder me at all, that people have formed an opinion about the similarity of Panataran carving to a Buginese sheath. Your picture was the first one where I clearly could discern the shape of Gandar, which is identical to Pagarruyung sheath. We also probably all have experienced the fact, that sometimes some details are much more easily noticed in a photograph then in real life.

What, I think, till now escapes many people, besides the Gandar shape, is the fact, that the front side of sheath in profile forms a straight line, like the sheath of Pagarruyung Keris.

Knowing Pagarruyung Keris and its sheath we even can tell, that a Jalak Budho or Bethok blade with Gandhik, not protruding outside the blade profile, will have a corresponding sheath with no protrusion where Gandhik is placed. (As we know, sheath is sometimes mimicking the details of the blade it houses, like Kruwingan.)The Keris from Panataran carving also seems to not have a protruding Gandhik.

The sheath from likely later Candi Sukuh carving shows a protruding front part, and that allows us to speculate, that Keris inside it also already would have a protruding Gandhik part.

At the core of my comments in Post 18 is this statement:-

"Central Javanese ladrang forms that do have a defined angkup but that have lost this angkup are never original creations, a Central Javanese ladrangan without angkup is always the result of an alteration, the loss of the angkup makes the keris unsuited for formal wear & for court wear --- "

once this is understood everything else that we have wandered over might be considered to be somewhat superfluous.

However, we're here to exchange ideas, so here are a few more:-

Post 24 --- I have already commented upon one element of this post, but there is something else that I should mention.

The wrongko in the relief carving at Candi Sukuh, that I have shown in my Post #18 & that appears again but reversed in Post 24, does not have a widheng, what looks vaguely like a spiral in the photo is in fact the natural grain of weathered 15th century rock.

In respect of exactly what classification can be applied to the Candi Sukuh wrongko. Yes, it does have some characteristics of a modern ladrangan, and of a modern sandang walikat, and also of a modern jamprahan & certainly of some bancihan forms. However, we do not have even the vaguest idea of what the name was for this form in the 15th century. For a long time I was inclined to think of it as a ladrangan form, not so much because of the wrongko itself, but rather because of the scene in which it appears.

At the present time I would be inclined to accept what anybody, with some understanding of the relative fields, thought that they could see. My own opinions are rarely set in stone, they change continually, and depend upon what I have learnt.

Post 25 --- The Wrongko shown in Post 25 is a Jogja Bancihan form, it is not one of the six Jogja formal Ladrangan forms recognised for official wear. The word "bancihan" comes from the root "banci", which in Javanese means an effeminate man, ie, a man who is neither fully male but also not female. At the present time some people regard the bancihan wrongko forms as having a stigma attached to them, perhaps this is unreasonable, because by likening this wrongko form to an effeminate man, the implied understanding is that it is neither one thing nor the other, it is sort of stuck in the middle with nowhere to go.

Post 26 --- The wrongko shown in Post 26 is the Balinese Jamprahan form, in past times the Jamprahan wrongko form was worn by religious leaders. This defined use accounts for its comparative rarity. This wrongko form is not the equivalent of a Javanese ladrangan form.

Post 27 --- The wrongko shown in this post appears to be a North Javanese variation, not a Central Javanese form, it could be original, it could be an alteration. I have no idea what it might have been classified as in its place & time of origin, but in Central Jawa it would be called "bancihan".

Re Post #31.

I have seen other keris with that little bit of floral carving at the end of the gandar, I've forgotten where they were from, I think probably Madura. They were old, not recent copies.

As for relating blade shape to wrongko shape, I've never given this any thought, its just not the sort of thing that interests me. But having said that, yes, you could well be right.

Alan, in my post #9, to which you referred in #18, I wrote:

"I have seen one old Branggah from Yogyakarta without Angkup, which was, so far as I can tell, in its original state."

In #18 you wrote;

(...) a Central Javanese ladrangan without angkup is always the result of an alteration, (...)

in my post #25 I presented a picture of this Branggah without Angkup, which you call Yogyakarta Bancihan.

That's it from my perpective, and we probably can call it a day.

Alan, I think, this carving at the end of Gandar survives also as the ornament at the same place on backside of some old Pendok.

My thought at the moment is, that this feature perhaps could have symbolised Makara at some point of its existence.

Post 34 --- all true Gustav, the name used in Jogja for a ladrangan wrongko is branggah, it has a different name in Bali, & a different name in Madura, the forms are all marginally different, but whatever name we use, it is the formal wrongko no matter where it is found.

That Post 25 "branggah" never was a branggah, it was made as a bancihan.

Post 35 In respect of the little panel of embossing that we sometimes find at the foot of the reverse face of a pendok, this could be an idea worth pursuing. In Jawa/Bali iconography the Makara is often paired with the Kala head, both act as guardians, the Makara is symbolic of lust, the wrongko is female in character.

The Kala sometimes appears on the front of a wrongko atasan, either as a topengan (mask) or as an integral carving.

Yeah, it sounds to me like a good idea, but good ideas cannot stand alone. At this remove I don't know how this idea might be able to be supported

Mr. Maisey and Gustav,

thank you for this in depth philosophy of altering Ladrang, It is interesting to read all the possibillities and the sheer amount of knowledge is shared on a quistion i asked. There is a lot to learn for me, and thank you all for the time you put in trying to give some insight and answers.

I learn each day a bit more, and i appreciate how the knowledge is shared here on the forum.
thank you all.

Martin

Alan, one last question regarding post #32.

is Javanese Bancihan form equivalent to Balinese Jamprahan? Just because Lalu Djelengga and Pande Suteja Neka calls this form "Jamprahan, also Bancihan".

I cannot give a definitive response to this question Gustav.

See below:-

Javanese -- jamprah -- long & luxuriant
banci -- an effeminate man, an asexual person

Balinese -- jamprah -- long, trailing, luxuriant
bancih -- an hermaphrodite

Indonesian -- jamprah -- not found
banci -- effeminate, transvestite, homosexual, powerless,
hermaphrodite, as well as two other unrelated
meanings

Old Javanese -- banci, bancih, bhanci -- not found
jamprah -- not found

Neither "banci" nor "jamprah" appear in Malay, Wilkinson gives "banchi" as Javanese with the meaning of "hermaphrodite".

The dominant Balinese name of "jamprahan" is appropriate to the form.

To my knowledge "jamprah" is not used for this form in Central Jawa, it could be used in other places in Jawa.

For me, the sticking point is that I cannot find either word in Old Javanese or Kawi, & I would have expected at least "jamprah" in Old Javanese.

We know that some people do not use the word "banci" or "bancih" to refer to this wrongko form, but rather, they avoid the issue by using "bancean/bincihan", I do not know, cannot find, either of these spellings in any related language.

However, the crux of the matter is this:-

what is the place & purpose, or more correctly, what was the place & purpose of this form in Bali & in Jawa?

We know that in Bali the jamprahan form was the prerogative of religious leaders.

We know that in Jawa the bancihan wrongko forms are used by dalangs, ie the wayang puppet masters.

We know that some anthropologists have placed the wayang as the foundation stone of Javanese religious philosophy & the director of Javanese social mores.

I personally do not see the bancihan/jemprahan form as being equivalent in societal terms in Jawa & Bali, I see it rather as a marker that identifies a leader in the field of applied social philosophy.

Equally, I see the term "bancihan" as colloquial misuse, probably generated by Islamic societal influence, and the word "jamprahan" as an appropriate descriptive name.

Incidentally, the mention of the respected name of Pande Wayan Suteja Neka has prompted me to make mention of something.

I think we all know about the Keris display at the Neka Museum in Ubud. Well, I was there last week and i found that this display has now been expanded into the other side of the first floor space.

This new addition contains only old keris, all in Balinese dress. The various keris blades identified as Balinese is quite an education.

For those who do not yet know, Pande Neka is a very successful art dealer, museum owner, and promoter of Balinese culture --- amongst other things --- and a highly respected member of the Ubud art coterie.

His new addition is well worth a visit, the more you think you might know, the more you will be amazed.