Has anyone seen anything similar to this sword?
 

I've only spent a couple of minutes looking at this sword, and the blade initially reminded me of nimchas, because of its smaller size and abrupt curvature. The script looked amharic, but an expert collector of Ethiopian swords confirmed that it wasn't. The hilt also steered me towards the realm of Islam - the Hamsa Hand, but it doesn't really look like other representations of it.
The script could be just a collection talismanic symbols. Unfortunately the photo of what appears to be a winged figure came out blurry.

nice
 

A very nice and unusual piece.

I get the feel it might be Hungarian and I do believe you are correct in your assessment of the hand, I too would say it is the hand of Fatima.

I look forward to other assessments.

Gav

Tha hand looks more Asian then Islamic. Perhaps Indonesian or Indian...Hand of Buddha???

Interesting to note the back of the hand is covered in flames while the palm is not. The guard shows vine leaves and grapes. Also there seems to be an angel with a sun above it to one side, the reverse seems to be a parasol with ?fire? under it???

These references might help with some leads....bed time for me, I look forward to seeing whats here in the morning.....Jim's going to love this one!!

Gav

Here's another photo of the front of the blade. Note the crown underneath the umbrella. I am really angry with myself for not taking a better photo of the figure on the other side of the blade.
The sword belongs to the Higgins Armory Museum, and I'm trying to help the curator properly ID it for the exhibition they'll be opening up soon.

The blade looks Indian to my eyes and do I see an Indian parasol mark?

Weird !
The hand of Fatima would have to be the right one; they (Muslims) wouldn't turn it :o .
The crown ... do they have this type of crowns in India ? it looks Western :o
Thr script ... not Hindi, not Arabic :o

The grapes on the hilt do not suggest India or the east to me, nor does the lettering. I Would suspect some sort of central European parade sword. Could easily be civil society rather than military. The hand is also European think of the red hand of Ulster and the notorious Black Hand which lead to a few years of trouble.

Not Islamic at all. I'd suggest its east european.

I've perused my books on the Indian arms and did not see anything even remotely similar to the hilt and/or the decorations on the blade.
To toss another hand in the mix - the open hand mark was also used by the Swiss on the blades of the arsenal-kept swords.

I'm not saying the entire piece is Indian, just the blade. The lettering could be a post-manufacture add-on but the profile of the blade, the fullering and the umbrella/parasol mark are quite Indian. The crown is unusual with the parasol mark. We have to remember that blades from India can be found in East European and Western mounts. Look at the spine of this blade. This form of blade from India often, not always, will have a recessed or fullered spine and this feature is not common in blades from other parts of the world. I doubt the blade is in good enough polish to see if it is watered or not and being from India it could be anything but take it into good sunlight and see if you can notice any pattern welding or other watering. Also, it appears there is the slightest hint of a "ricasso" at the cutting edge of the blade near the hilt which is quite reminescent of some Indian blades which are sharpened a few inches down from the hilt and over long periods of time can be "indented" quite a bit.

In thinking about the script, there are a number of Indian blades that have European style lettering that is basically non-descript, done in imitation of European markings. This script reminds me of some of those examples.

The spine IS fullered. I will attach a photo later. Could you please post a photo of the umbrella/parasol decoration?
It is also possible that the blade is European, made to emulate the Eastern style, as was sometimes done in the 17th-18th. c. for the use in the so-called 'Turkish Balls', which were in fashion amongst the Germanic nobility.

Quite plausible; Turks (Ottoman) also practice this in firearms lockplates.

Here is a link to a discussion on the parasol mark and pictures of a couple of examples.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=parasol

In my experience, you only find the fullered spine in Indian swords and occasionally in Polish/E European blades and also in Chinese blades. Given the size, blade fullering and general look I lean heavily towards this blade being Indian.

Rick,
I am fully with you, the blade is Indian - to my opinion NW but I may be wrong.
Jens

I was wondering about that parasol and the sun - a trade to Ethiopia? (they have different forms of Hamsa).

the hand sword
 

i think the script is possibly a form of cyrillic.to me it says eastern europe,does it have a scabbard,and if so is it in the form of a sleeve regards napoleon

hand sword
 

in fact i think it could be seen as an ultimatum, in as much it could be viewed as the hand of peace or the hand of fire.i dont think it to be the hand of fatima.and i feel sure it is a very special piece,but europe im sure regards napoleon

As a note, I have fullered spines on Chinese, Burmese, Georgian, Indian and Sarawak weapons and have seen them on other Borneo, Turkic and Thai weapons too.

With the new images and now seeing clearly the step in the blade NW India is very possible for the blade.

Gav

Interesting sword indeed. I too would not be surprised if the blade was Indian. The 'script' has runic elements, common across Europe, probably added later. The other noticeable thing is that when the sword is gripped you are effectively 'shaking its hand'. Perhaps relavent....perhaps not. The shaking of hands is symbolic of being unarmed/non threatening (as most people are right handed ....you would have to either 'sheath' your weapon or place it in the left ...to be able to 'offer' your right hand. (unless you happen to be a left hander (sinister) and had murderous intent :eek:

Regards David

Not so sure about the hand-shaking part implied here; when you grasp someone's hand it is thumb to thumb.

Suggest the hand is 'sinistre' in the intention of the hilt form . :shrug:

The rings for the missing chain point to right handed use .

The script seems to be cyrillic. Anyone with a knowledge of Russian should decipher it. When the sword is held, is it comfortable to wield?, or does it seem purely ornamental or ceremonial?

I would love to see the entire profile of the blade. The raised forte, and raised yelman(?) suggest Eastern Europe (Hungarian-Polish), Ottoman, maybe Chinese.

Jeff

Well Noted Jeff, I still think 100% Hungarian.....

Redjack: The script is neither old, nor new Cyrillic...

Not sure it is this at all, but the script reminds me of this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Hungarian_script

There are a number of old script forms and alphabets in central Europe, so while it may not be this one I am semi positive it is from the general area.

Agree with Tatiana: the script is definitely not Cyrillic.
There is an eagle on the blade, looking suspiciously like the USA. The inscription confirms it: "E pluribus unum". In short- USA blade, 19-20 century. Who reworked it, and in what style, is a separate question.
The quillon on one side looks somewhat "nabour-ish", isn't it?

That would be the lower picture, which is another thing ... not the upper one in discussion :o

Wow. What a cool sword.
Note that the guard seems to be shaped as the cuff of a likely ceremonial vestment of some kind. Is there any known gesture, used in religious or lodge practice, perhaps, where one grips one's own left hand in the manner one grips this hilt?
I had a straight Spanish cavalry "saber" with a spine fuller. Beautiful sword. Very rust-pitted, but I sharpened it up for a friend who needed a sword.
Love the spine fuller. Love the peaked spine. I love that spine they do on pesh kabz and salawar yatagans sometimes, where the spine has its own little round-topped midrib...... :) I love the spine groove....
Is the hilt cast on to the tang on this sword, or how is it attached, if you don't mind answering?

The script may resemble the runic characters, but in a way of imitation. I don't think there is any meaning to them in the conventional sense, i.e. these are not abbreviations of anything in the Western vernacular. In other words, they have nothing to do with the abbreviated inscriptions on the Viking period swords, in my opinion.
Here's an additional shot of the blade.
Ceremonial/secret society vestment purpose might be the answer, among other things. The script may represent a societal code of some sort.

I've been poking around in omniglot, which has a number of scripts. I tend to agree that it's magical writing, but I don't know the system. The closest I've been able to find is the "angelic script", but it's not a match.

I suspect it's someone's magical/ritual item. It may have a masonic connection, but I'm not very confident of that, either.

My 0.00002 cents,

F

Thank you very much! It's a great link, and something I had no idea about. An umbrella and a crown, a royal symbol of Hindus [Mughals?] and an ostensibly western royal symbol are pictured together.

Gav was right, I really do love this one!!!:) and it is such an anomaly, I must admit it has taken quite a bit of puzzled consideration to try to figure out what appears to be an amalgam of features, the extremely unusual hilt of a outstretched hand the most enigmatic.
I think Gav's suggestion of Hungarian is well placed, and as concurred by Rick (RSword) and Jeff, it seems to me that East European potential for this sword is very high.

In looking at the blade profile, this does indeed seem to be very close to the heavy falchion type blades that have been seen on tulwars (as pointed out to me by Gav) and were actually 'firangi' blades similar to those of N.Italy or Styria.

The note on the curious characters as mentioned by Iain, do carry certain similarities to Hungarian script, and the case for Eastern Europe is strengthened.

Regarding the hilt, with the hand, this is so unusual it would be hard to identify its specific meaning or association, however the scrolled quillon type terminal and the vestigial langet suggest some military association to its overall design. The eyelets remaining for the chainguard suggest this sword is likely hilted around mid 18th century.

Turning to the inlaid gold metal characters and the images of the winged figure surmounted by a rayed sun and the other side with what appears a Continental European type crown and a parasol, these have been placed on this blade probably European as noted.

The characters in the inscriptions seem to possibly be acrostics with these possibly Kabbalistic sigils, and magic related symbols which may have been interpolated . I have found parallels in degree to a number of the alphabet characters from Kabbala, as well as similarities to the inscription on a Bohemian court sword of early 18th century ("Catalog of European Court and Hunting Swords" Bashford Dean, N.Y. 1929, #26). The Bohemian sword is stated of the Strasbourg manner, and the characters seem to be as noted, an amalgam of symbols, sigils and characters, with the 'tau' type character matching at least one of the characters on this sword. The inlaid latten type inscription on the example posted here is reminiscent of this practice on the early Frankish swords and continued into the 17th-18th c. in many European blades.

In the inscription on the posted sword, several of the 'letters' resemble the crescent man in the moon type figure often seen in Kabalistically related 'talismanic' blades as well as the rayed sun over the winged figure in the markings. These astral features of sun, moon , stars are commonly in these 'talismanically' textured blade groupings of usually 18th century.

The parasol is truly a puzzle, as has been mentioned, being typically associated with the Mughal armouries in India. It should be noted that the parasol was also keenly associated with Ottoman armouries and is seen on a number of their weapons, and worthy of note the Ottomans were in Hungary until the beginning of the 18th century. The parasol may have other certain more ancient associations to ancient Israel as seen on coins, and while the image seen on the parasol in the markings on this blade resembles Mughal/Ottoman form, the image may be mindful of the ancient connection.
It was a fashion element signifying status and often regal association and had become a gentry device in Italy and probably these cosmopolitan centers of Europe by the late 17th century. Its placement over the crown suggests such status it would seem, much as noble ligatures over crowns in cyphers.

Several of the characters of Angelic script (created by Agrippa in the 16th c. from Greek and Hebrew letters) do correspond to some of those in the inscription here in some degree as far as I can see :) while some are Kabbalistic and magical sigils in style.

While at this point it is not possible to say with any certainty what this fascinating sword is from, perhaps a fraternal or secret group or society in regions of East Europe from the latter 18th century and by the hilt elements, likely military oriented. There may be allegorical elements to the sword overall, to which more explanation may be held in the inscriptions and devices in the markings and decoration but of course, more research required!!:)

All the best,
Jim

In Europe there are a great many festivals where people, mostly as members of various committees or "societies" dress up in often rather traditional, often rather ancient and paganistic, roles.
Think "mummer"s