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some more
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The Armoury of the Princely House of Hohenlohe-Langenburg, removed from Schloss Langenburg
Thomas del mar 3/12 lot 256 iron doppelhaken 1537. small detail there was a big nail hammered inside the pan?!? best, Jasper |
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The Armoury of the Princely House of Hohenlohe-Langenburg, removed from Schloss Langenburg
Thomas del mar 3/12 lot 257, Iron doppelhaken, dated second half of the 16th century. however due to its simple barrel shape and hook construction is probably earlier. around 1500? best, Jasper |
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Magnificent. The right example for anyone's wishing list :cool: |
yes, this was a unique opportunity for a unique weapon.
from 3 december onwards , I still regret that I did not bid a bit longer on one of the three. |
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Thanks for posting these! I will have more on them soon. The nail to the rear end of the pan on the wall gun dated 1537 you are refrerring to actually is the head of a rivet, the pivot for the swiveling pan cover. The stock of the brass barel dated 1525 was a bad modern reconstruction. The upper flat of all period stocks was on the same level as the top flat of the barrel; only the rear sight was above that level. Cf. attachment #4 marked for comparison with the shape of the stock on the piece in the author's collection. So all that really was actually valuable was the barrel. The wall piece in the author's collection, which came from that same Hohenlohe-Langenburg provenance, still is the only one retaining both its original stock AND ramrod. In the catalog description attached below, Nicholas McCullough refers to "a Bavarian private collection", mentioning this thread as "Trömner 2009" for the numbering on the hook. Best for tonight, Michael |
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Atts. #9 and 10 depict the arsenal numbering on the piece in the author's collection.
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The remaining details, and author's photos in the Hohenlohe Castle from 2000.
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Another contemporary brass barreled Doppelhaken, Nuremberg, still in the Hohenlohe Collection, retaining its original though damaged oaken stock.
Please note that the upper line of the butt stock is exactly on the same level as the top flat of the barrel. Author's photos. |
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The Nuremberg Doppelhaken dated 1537, when still in the long exhibition hall of Hohenlohe Castle.
Contrary to the the opinion uttered in Thomas Del Mar's catalog description, the author is convinced that the stock was the original. The barrelsmith's mark struck three time in the Gothic tradition was identified and termed by the author as that of the Nuremberg worksphop of the "Meister mit den gekreuzten Pfeilen" (Master of the Crossed Arrows). It belonged to an obviously very prolific workshop which is known to have concentrated on the manufacture of cranequins for crossbows from at least the 1520's. In 40 years of research, the author has documemted 16 cranequins in museums, private collections, at dealers and auction houses, the earliest of them ca. 1520-25; the earliest dated cranequin struck with this mark, 1532, formerly was in the author's collection and is now in a Bavarian private collection, together with other cranequins from the same workshop, dated 1540 and 1545 respectively. From ca. the mid-1530's, that workshop seems to also have manufactured wrought iron barrels. The barrel of another, almost identical wall gun still preserved at Schloss Hohenlohe bears the same mark and identical date 1537 - please see atts. to follower post. Author's photos. |
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Attached here is another detail of the muzzle section of the gun discussed in the previous post.
A matchlock barrel in the Landeszeughaus Graz, inv.no. RG 2 in Robert Brooker's Eine Radschloss-Sammlung - A Wheellock Collection, 2007, mounted on a later stock, and together with a ca. 1535-40 wheellock mechanism, is struck with that mark and the date 1537 (definitely misread as 1527 in Brooker) - see author's photos from 2005 attached. Two important matchlock arquebuses, the barrels struck twice wit that crossed arrows mark and the date 1539, are in the Germanisches Nationalmuseum Nürnberg, inv.no. W 494, and in the author's collection respectively - see: post #66 in this thread, and http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...harquebus+1539 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...harquebus+1539 For cranequins with that mark dated 1532, 1540 and 1545 respectively, see: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...cranequin+1532 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...cranequin+1532 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...cranequin+1532 and attachment to post #70 in this thread. Attached are photos of another, almost identical wall gun still preserved in the Hohenlohe-Langenburg collection, the barrel struck with the same mark and the identical date 1537; most probably, the stock is the original although figured slightly diferent from that of the first piece. Author's photos. |
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Three more close-ups of the muzzle section.
Author's photos. |
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The description and images from Tom Del Mar's catalog.
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A close comparison of the pan and cover of the Doppelhaken dated 1537 sold at Tom del Mar shows that when the author photographed it, the cover was not yet bent - the way it was by the time of the sale.
First two photos attached copyrighted by the author, the others copyrighted by Thomas Del Mar Ltd. |
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Hi Michael, thanks for your explanations and clarifications regarding this very interesting weapons re: Nail in pan I did not mean the pivot nail, There is also a similar nail hammered inside the pan you can see it on the picture. Do you maybe know its function? VBW, jasper |
I would say this is a working life repair of the igniting pan ;)
After so many shots, the corrosive blackpoder charge would have eaten right trough the quit thinly made pan... and no good can come from a pan with a hole in it. |
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Hi Jasper, There is no need to worry;) about the Princes' armory because many items are still there at the Schloss. Actually, just like many other noble houses, monetary reasons have forced them to sell off weapons and other stuff from time to time. The difference is only that up to now, they consigned their goods with a local auction house in Bayreuth, and anonymously, since at least the 1960's; all the catalog description would say was "property from a noble house". In their last sale, about 12 years ago, another of those wrought iron haquebut/wall gun barrels dated 1537 was sold. It did not retain its original stock, though, but was just crudely nailed to a large and heavy kind of beam by two iron rings and some huge nails; this may have been done out of sheer need, in the Thirty Years War or at some later time. That monstrous piece is on display in the museum of Rothenburg ob der Tauber in Franconia now. Best, Michael |
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Hi Jasper, You are absolutely right, that barrel definitely was earlier than the catalog description reads, "second half 16th century". Sadly, the experts did not note the obvious close relationship between this barrel to the the one dated 1537 - although the two of them lay side by side; still, the former got misdated. Although not dated, and bearing a different mark, that barrrel shows exactly the same triple sectioning as the one dated, octagonal/round/round, with the very same dimensions, and is equipped with the same kind of pan. Also, the location of the rear sight, though shaped diffrently from that on the 1537 barrel, doubtlessly assigns the piece to the 1530's. See two last attachments to post #70 and all atts. to post #71 in this thread for a contemporary barrel with the same type of square rear sight. The only notable formal difference between this and the dated barrel being that the hook of the former is attached by a sturdy iron sleeve. Although this can normally only be observed as a later working time addition to early 15th c. barrels that originally did not have a hook, it was most probably characteristic to the (unidentified) workshop. Another, almost identical piece that still is in the Schloss is wrought exactly the same way, and it doubtlessly retains its original stock, so these hooks cannot be explained by some later working life alteration. See atts. to follower post. Due to the formal stylistic criteria set up by the author to enable a closer dating of barrels, this item, too, must have been wrought within a narrow span of time, which isca. 1530-40, and logically it should be correctly identified and dated "Nuremberg, late 1530's", because in 1539, the first Nuremberg barrels were sectioned only twice, with the separating girdle forward of the breech having disappeared: cf. the barrels of two Nuremberg made Landsknecht's matchlock arquebuses, both struck with the "Crossed Arrows" mark and the date 1539. Quote from post #94 in this thread: Two important matchlock arquebuses, the barrels struck twice with that crossed arrows mark and the date 1539, are in the Germanisches Nationalmuseum Nürnberg, inv.no. W 494, and in the author's collection respectively - see: post #66 in this thread, and http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...=harquebus+1539 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...+harquebus+1539 In all probability, a small series of those barrels at the Hohenlohe-Langenburg armory were bought from the City of Nuremberg, to which all local workshops had to deliver by contract a certain quantity of their products. The Nuremberg city archive records still hold all the details. Best, Michael |
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In the exhibition hall, the author photographed three more similar wall pieces, all of them doubtlessly Nuremberg made; they still are in Schloss Hohenlohe-Langenburg: - one with a cast brass barrel very similar to the sample dated 1525, and contemporary: see atts. to post #90; - and two more with wrought iron barrels: the first almost identical to the one just sold (cf. posts 83f. and 93f.), the wrought iron barrrel also dated 1537 and bearing the same "Crossed Arrows" mark struck three times - and another, the barrel not dated and almost the pair to lot #257 at Thomas Del Mar (cf. posts #84 and 99), retaining its original slightly carved stock but in worse condition, the butt stock heavily wormed, damaged and incomplete: see atts. to this post. There also remains a breech loading falconet (German: Bockbüchse) mounted on a two-wheel carriage; please see my thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=breechloading Best, Michael |
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Hi Jasper, I'm sorry for not getting the point:shrug:, and thanks for pointing me at a small detail I would otherwise have overlooked.;) Marcus is absolutely right: the pan was rusted through, and nailing was the easiest way to fill that hole, just like spiking a burnt-out touch hole. Rust holes in pans can sometimes be oberserved on 500 year-old haquebut barrels which saw hard service for most of their long working life, especially during the Thirty Years War. The reason being that those large wall guns were always kept right there in the same place - loaded and primed, and ready to be fired any moment. Thus the bottom of their pans kept rusting heavily from the priming powder they always held, and after centuries, they sometimes failed to hold it any more. E.g., in the author's collection there is a heavy Late Gothic haquebut barrel that was wrought in ca. 1490 -1500, and restocked with a matchlock at the Regensburg City Arsenal during the 1640's, the most roaring latter years of the Thirty Years War; its pan, too, is rusted through - from holding the priming powder most if the time, and with no oiling done for centuries. Its beechwood butt stock is branded with the Regensburg City arms, two crossed keys, and the letters ZG for Zeughaus (arsenal). Photos of that 16 kg monster attached - Marcus, you doubtlessly remember handling it!;):cool: I also took images of the hole in the pan but my computer refuses to receive them from the camera ... Best as ever to both of you, Michael/Michl |
hi Michael,
thanks for the explanation and it is a beautiful and rare heavy "matchlock haquebut" or "haquebut musket" ? :confused: vbw, jasper |
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Who am I to tell, to discern?!:D;):eek: Actually, as its weight of 16 kg is definitely too heavy to aim the piece the usual way, and considering that its barrel was a haquebut barrel about 150 before it got updated with the present stock and lock, I feel safe enough to call it a haquebut, or a wall gun. Best, Michael |
For a detailed discussion of that 16 kilogram monster of a matchlock wall gun/haquebut from the former Regensburg City Arsenal, now in The Michael Trömner Collection, please see author's thread:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10481 Unfortunately, none of all those photos depicts the rust hole in the priming pan; I will get one, though - I promise!;) Best, Michael |
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For more details on this wall gun, see: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/editpo...tpost&p=179338 m |
Revicing this great thread
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Three pictures, two of a fragmented wall piece, brass from Lichtenberg.
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