Ahh yes, the solid shot on the wooden base...it came from a land far, far away- ;)

I see your point on the construction and in the end simply need to continue doing research on this puppy. It is not absolutely proven to be a barshot, nor is it absolutely proven not to be a dumbell (I must say, though, that it probably is one or the other versus a third option of counterweight, machine part, etc).

The best proof I had that it was mid-19th was the last site I listed which, unfortunately, is no longer accessible. That gent sold a number of cannons from all age and nationalities and had barshot EXACTLY like mine listed as 19th c. His site wasn't above some controversy, though, being a seller after all (some of his lanaka appeared more modern and poorly cast to be original), sooooo....hopefully, I'll run across a Civil War artillery expert someday who will finally end the speculation.

I have registered in a Spanish Naval History forum in purpose to ask details on palanquetas, namely their cross section profile; but no answer so far :shrug: .
http://todoababor.mforos.com/1556314...0-palanquetas/

i posted a copy of the US artillery manual for the civil war period on the forum before. it mentions bar and chain shot only in passing, for naval use. it goes into great detail on all other civil war era projectiles, their wooden sabot, the tin bands used to hold same to the shot, pre-made cartridges, etc. etc. worth doing a search for & reading it.

Linky to Gibbon Artillery Manual of 1863

the full 1862 army ordinance manual, scanned, is available thru google books as a .pdf if interested... it's too big to attach here. (19MB) it has sections not only on artillery, but small arms and horse saddles, and tackle, swords and bayonets, etc. and also tables on ballistics and on 'foreign' ordinance.

Linky to google books ord. manual (click the .pdf item upper left to download)

Hi Kronckew,

Those latter contributions seem to kind of lead to a considerably later period of time than I intended to cover when posting the thread and staking its claim. I have to admit though that I don't mind the current evolution at all, and I sure wish you to go on both researching and updating, guys! :)

And don't worry: I promise you I'll hang on bringing in the earliest points of view on my favored subject! After all, all topics need evolution and fresh minds, just in order to stand up to scientific evaluation! :rolleyes: :cool: I'm glad our community is taking the topic to further boundaries! ;)

Best,
Michael

Hi there,

I found this barshot specimen attributed to the American Revolutionary War in a Cowans', Ohio, catalog of 28-29 April 2010.

Best,
Michael

Most kind and Gentlemanly of you Michl :) :cool: .

Hi Wayne

I find no .pdf item in the upper left when i open the link; only one .pdf button in the upper right but it doesn't enable the download. Could it be because we have a different operative system ?

I have a huge appreciation for these naval types of shot and it was never my intention to steer attention away from the primary focus. I assure all that if I had my way, I'd own all the specimens already presented ( :D ), nor do I have a particular interest in post- Age of Fighting Sail armament. It's just that it's so frustrating and amazing that there is an absence of clarity of this area pertaining to the 19th c. I was hoping to find out for sure and thus, I posted here. I feel anyone who researches specialty shot may find this thread informative from beginning to end (i.e. early shot to it's extinction in the latter half of the 19th century).

Kronkew- thank you very much for those links. You bring my exact point to light with this, though. Here are manuals detailing every aspect of artillery from gunpowder grain, combustion forces, exact propulsion with estimation of droppage with firing, specific ordenance, the wood used to make cannon carriages, etc, etc. Yet, when it comes to our little friend, the bar and chain shot, there is a generic 4 or 5 word description. Understandably, these were on their way out, but still, no valid description for something still carried on ships and such? I just read an article on a land-based installation on the Atlantic coast that fired barshot at attacking ships circa 1860's, yet no pics, no descriptions? It's like this with every book and online source I've come across thus far. It's not just the Amer CW either. Other countries still carried forms of bar/chain shot. Were these just recycled from previous centuries, or is my guess right that with modern forging came easier models of barshot (two cannon balls braised to a round bar). That'ss my tirade for the night, just wish someone would definitively prove me right or wrong. :cool:

Hmmm...another clue to look into if it's correct.

http://cwbullet.org/bullet-relic-for...hp/t-6189.html

I have got an answer from a word keeping Spaniard. Not much of a help for your case, though; but a great article on XVII ships artillery;
http://www.aammb.cat/9034%20galeon%2...artilleria.pdf

.

found the referenced youtube video today when looking at another video on sword and buckler posted here. around 02:47 into it, they show an example of the 'slow' cannonball effects i mentioned earlier in this thread. kinda gory. whole video is educational. lotsa nice arms, sharp pointy things and things that go boom.

HD Battle of Camden from 'the Patriot' (best at 720p HD & full screen)

edited: today must be cannon day. found this article:

Cannon ball fired thru home

kinda off topic, but does show the odd bounces they can take.

Very nice video, and rather authentic regarding the guns as well - thanks!

m

This is a video of a real field experiment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfsuI...ure=plpp_video
Took me a LOT of time to find it after searching for another footage from a different film I once saw on History channel, similar conditions but targets were ballistic gelatine rather plywood.

Two months ago I visited the Czech Republic and was very happy to discover a new vast exhibition of arms & armor in the renovated Schwarzenberg Palace. Two chain shots exhibited, one is a rather interesting hybrid.

Thank you so much for these images - and for the information that the arms museum in the Schwarzenberg Palais has been reopened. I photographed there for hours in 1995.

Best,
Michael

Grrrr, double post ...

I remembered having seen some of this stuff in the Oporto Military Museum.
... And still they were there today :cool:


-

And that's what they were supposed to be, I guess! :eek:
m

For more on grape shot and canister shot, please see my thread

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...d=1#post134755

Best,
Michael

Grape Shot in The Art Institute of Chicago
 

Labeled as 18th/19th c., from the George F. Harding collection.

Best,
Michael

Another.

m

Fascinating little specimen ... and in Technicolor :cool:

... and Cinemascope! :cool: :eek:

Awesome new info and pics, Michael. Please keep 'em coming!
Mark

I RAN ACROSS A FEW PICTURES FROM THE AMERICAN CIVIL WAR WITH CANNON AND SHOT THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE A GOOD PLACE TO POST CANNONBALLS.
1. NEATLY STACKED UNION ORDINANCE LIKELY ARSENAL YARD WASHINGTON DC.
2.UNION GUN EMPLACEMENT WITH CANNISTER SHOT.
3.RICHMOND VA. AFTER UNION FORCES WENT THRU REMAINS OF ARSENAL.
MANY MAJOR CITIES IN THE SOUTH LOOKED LIKE THIS AFTER THE WAR MAJOR CITES IN THE NORTH WERE NOT DESTROYED.

For more on quilted shot, please see

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...225#post138225

Canister grape shot of 1812:

http://images.ourontario.ca/niagaraf...ums/71962/data

m

Chain shot (and not only) pictured last week in the Navy Museum, situated in Torre Del Oro, Seville, Spain.
I looks like the black finishing is original.

.

What do you think about this item here: http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/item.php?id=5683

Personally, I think it is much too elaborated to be ammunition, and not too heavy to be thrown by hand.

Yes, too elaborated to be cannon stuff and about right to be thrown by hand ... by strong guys.
... and too risky to be posted; as still on active sale ;) .

I see no problem - not an auction, the seller is active here and a personal friend. If you check the description you'll see he noted the two speculations (we even discussed it today :D ).

Forgive me, Broadaxe :o
No hard feelings and nothing personal; only the force of habit. I see both sale and auctions with the same binoculars :shrug: .

... 1. Discussion of items currently in the process of being offered for sale, especially active auctions, is strictly prohibited...

No problem, you can delete.

Oh no, i am not currently a 'deleter'; that was only a hint.

Well, as long as the pics are still up! :D :cool:

The item in question is very interesting and could be a form of expanding barshot. Its main purpose would have been to slash through lines/ropes in the tops, or as anti-personnel. It is similar to 'star-shot', in that it would have folded up for insertion in the cannon and expanded in flight. It is very elaborate, but then again, many of the Indian suncontinent weapons were. If it is not an artillery shot, I can't say what its purpose would have been?

Fernando, thats for posting that chainshot picture from Saville. I haven't seen too many of the real ones with the chain link directly brazed to the ball itself and the close-up photo was great.

More on chainshot