Hi Mark,
One never knows; eh? :)
The first Acheron appears to have been a lowly Bomb Ketch according to the list I consulted.
IIRC she was in the Royal Navy service from 1803 to 1805 when she was captured in the Med by the French.
A short career and one that predates the pistol's production date.

Still it would be a nice acquisition for a fan of the Movie.

Hi again Fernando.

No, that's the threaded hole for the mainspring screw.
It's been a while. So I took the barrel and lock off per Norman's request. I'll post what I found with photos below.

Rick

OK. First the lock:

There are no markings on the outside of the lock. Here is what I found on the inside: In the center of the lock plate are the letters: FD FD gd L
The front inside of the lock plate has four intentional hash marks. And a series of small, round punch marks on the inside of the hammer and pan, as well as the pan cover of the frizzen. Maybe just assembly matching.
The first F could be something different as it's partially covered by the mainspring. (I guess I could take the mainspring off)

Rick

And now the barrel:

On the bottom of the breech plug tang is the number 42.
On the left, rear side of the barrel, at the breech are two stamped letters I can't make out. But the ELC over the star inside the oval is there.
On the bottom of the barrel, about 2 inches from the breech is a similar mark posted by Corado above. Below that mark it looks like there are two stamped, separated letters I can't make out.

Rick

Hi Rick,
Many thanks for dismounting your pistol, unfortunately I am still in the dark re the various and differing stamps on this type of pistol. I am corresponding with someone in Belgium to try and get some more definitive information on the marks and of course will post the results if and when. Thanks again.
My Regards,
Norman.

I would say ... definitely !

So Norman, the link in my post #26 is not useful. I confess i did not navigate into it.
Best
Fernando

Hi Fernando,
Your link takes me to the same place as the link in my post no 35. I've been through the site and although it has good info it is not complete so I am still searching. Thanks anyway.
My Regards,
Norman.

So bad; no wonder the actual curator is new on the job and didn't properly deal with my specific question; marks and their support text :shrug: .

Rick,

The mark in your last photo of the barrel is the Belgian Provincial proof mark.
After 1968, this mark is for Optional Provincial proof. Of course your pistol pre-dates this! (EL in script.)
This mark can be seen clearly in my post # 53 on previous page.

Hi Richard,
I take it this is the mark you are referring to.
My Regards,
Norman.

P.S. I've just read the whole of your post and of course it is the one you're referring to re your post no 53, I blame senility it's always a good get out clause. :o :)

Interesting that most of these pistols you find today are still in good condition.
And there use seemed to have an abrupt end during the transition to the percussion era. I've never seen one that was converted to percussion. After about a 25 year run the pistol appears to have fallen out of favor with the various governments that purchased them creating a large surplus. There is hardly an antique gun auction today that doesn't have one or two for sale.

Rick

So true, Rick. However, contrary to what has been said here, i could swear i have read that these pistols were of fragile construction; could it be ?

Hi Fernando

I have not read that anywhere, that I can remember. From a shooter's perspective, the locks, barrels, stocks and hardware are very solidly built.
Even the breech plug integrity to thick barrel wall is done well. Very much to European standards.

The only ones I've personally seen that are in lesser condition were due to latter, 20th Century neglect. Not many.

Rick

Rick, i have visited a zillion sources over this thread by the time; to find the one where i have (thought) i read mentioning such particular, would be like a needle in a haystack. Perhaps i have made some confusion; reason why i was asking if "it could be".
With the due respect for these specific pistols, it wouldn't be the first time that (some other) Liegeoise guns came buy with visible function weaknesses, s i had them in hand myself. But that is another story :shrug:.

Hi,
With regard to the fragility or otherwise of these pistols. The Liege one I have has obviously had the hammer repaired and also many years ago I dry fired one of these with flint in situ of course and the hammer broke in two. Maybe the quality of metalwork varies as I suspect there were many smaller manufactories turning these out by the barrel load.
Regards,
Norman.

Many many of pieces came out from Liege; the best ... and the worst. I have had both.



.

Interesting you mention this, Norman, going back to this gun's primary function. Private purchase weapons were always made on the cheap, often to be used only in a pinch and often at the cheapest price a merchant captain (or board of directors) could get by with. Thus, on private purchase swords we see surplus m1803's, mismatched blades, blacksmith quality sheet metal guards, etc. It seems likely the guns would also be treated similarly. The swords were rolled out literally in barrels to arm the crew and the pistols taken down from racks to do likewise. These were not 'tenderly handled' gentlemen's pistols. They were practically never used unless attacking an enemy or defending their ship, unlike a military pistol in the field which would see much more action. Mine is extremely sturdy and apart from one time when I pulled the trigger and the hammer fell off(having 'fired' it many times without the flint like a dummy), it has been fine and I just tightened the screw holding the hammer in place. :o

Capn, this is the best insight and perspective on the weaponry typically used on vessels yet, and literally describes the nature of the quality issues as well as reasons for it or lack therof. As we have discussed these pistols were often almost a 'one shot' deal, and became more of a bludgeon or projectile after the initial discharge. Obviously such weapons were inexpensive and suited the often limited budget of a vessel for such arms.
The unusual array of edged arms etc. reflects the use of various 'available' components often assembled by their armourers as well, and likely accounts for the anomalies you have often identified and discussed.

Hello Jim and thanks for your comments. I was just thinking about even the food that the sailors were subjected to as a reference to the penny-pinching involved in the navies and ships of the era. Pursers were often the most reviled crewmates on a ship, frequently known to skim off the top to pocket the extra money while serving tripe to the sailors! A little off-topic, I know, but the same principles were always in place! Much like today's industries, lowball the bid to get the biggest bang for the buck! :cool:

Hi,
Got a reply from the Belgian Military Museum. Not a Belgian service weapon, possibly a trade pistol and may have been used in the mercantile marine. Didn't get any info re the numerous stamps on these type pistols. Not really anything we didn't already know apart from maybe the definitive statement that it was not a Belgian service weapon. I asked if Belgian long arms of the first part of the 19thC were of the same bore as the pistol i.e. .69 as Dutch and French service issue muskets were and I thought there may have been some crossover with Belgian long arms and this pistol, didn't get a reply to this question. Hope this is of some use re this elusive pistol.
Regards,
Norman.

Thank you, Norman, for clarifying some of the questions with these pistols. I always thought it a little strange that a Belgian pistol made by a land-locked country would have a need for a naval pistol, barring foreign legion use. At least we know that these were absolutely for export and probably only used for private purchase via mercantile markets. As a 'private purchase' (i.e. cheaply-made!) and merchant-class, it explains why these guns are plain-Janes and not necessarily perfect. As a maritime collector, this doesn't distract from the interest for me in these types and the places they might have ended up! China Sea trade, clipper ships in Malay waters, mutinies in the South Pacific! Still very exciting stuff! ;)

AHEM!!!
:)

OPPS!!! :o That's what I get for not remembering my geography! In any case (!), NOT Belgian naval piece. As I have never really heard of the Belgian navy, just the sheer amount of these pistol-types is a statement as to the obvious exports of said item.

Now, a recap please of all known nations that actually used this type for their merchant ships? England we know for sure. France as well. Any Norwegian/Danish? They were certainly involved during the Napoleonic period.