Gavin, my friend, you are saying the right thing. You and I have seen many different examples, because you and I specifically interested in Central Asia.

Gentlemen, I have redacted some of what I have seen due to the fact that THEY DO NOT BELONG HERE!

Both you, Ariel and Mahratt, been warned privately (as well as other measures). This is a good thread and I have learned from the information you folks have provided. Please keep on topic. Personal attacks and slander on ANYONE will not be tolerated here. I do not want to close this thread...........

I want to show Bukhara shashkas from Hermitage and the Museum of artillery in St. Petersburg . Incidentally, the term "Bukhara shashka" unites the shashkas of Bukhara, Khiva and Kokand.

oh my! that 2nd sword from your post immediately above mine is one of the most gorgeous looking swords i have ever seen.

What is the scabbard made of, and in which museum does this beauty reside?

Thank you for keeping this thread civil so it can continue. Although not my area of collecting it has been fascinating seeing the paintings and some of the examples posted.

Many thanks. I am glad that you like!
I also really like the first and second shashkas :) These shashkas were presented to the Tsar of Russia. These shashkas presented Khan of Kokand.

Now they are kept in the Hermitage in Russia

Oh my indeed!

Having a pair of hilts in the same manner, this is what I suspect at face value.

I suspect a timber inner core with a possible "Moroccan" leather inner throat area for the blade.
The outer is dressed with a silver, almost entirely like a honey comb or reptile scale pattern, but specifically a random pattern with each hole is the final appearance. Again, I suspect as I only see the final product in hand, but small turquoise and garnet stones are resin inset in to each tiny hole, once cured, ground, polished and shaped with a wheel.
These hilt types are mostly considered as political gifts to other rulers and men of standing as only the Amir had the means for such time, expense and beauty.

Gavin

Indeed it is great to see this discourse return to the now apparent diversion to this fascinating study of Bukharen and Afghan swords, which in itself is probably one of the most esoteric areas of the edged weapons on Central Asia.
It is almost unfortunate that this particular discussion has begun under the title of the original post which pertains to the distinguished Russian artist Vasily Vereshchagin, as these swords certainly deserve their own titled thread to bring in broader interest in their study.

Meanwhile, I am very grateful for all of the fantastic pictures of these swords and the most interesting attention to their features and details.
I would have to agree however, that this curious debate over the number of rivets or their size is to me fully specious. While there are seemingly some preponderances such as five rivets placed on the Bukharen sabres as appeared in Mr. Flindt's venerable article, he did note potential variances.

As far as I can imagine, the development and production of these types of saber (Bukharen) and the cleft pommel shashka like versions attributed to Afghanistan and Uzbekistan are so predisposed to cross diffusion that most finite attribution is unlikely, if not nearly impossible.

As I have mentioned many times, as Mr. Flindt once said to me, weapons have NO geographic boundaries.
This was noted in what became a rather inconclusive struggle to classify one of these 'shashkas' as either Uzbek or Afghan about 18 years ago.
While it I was once told that the Bukharen sabre had of course nothing to do with the shashka, it remains seemingly likely that the profound Russian presence in these regions in the times of the "Great Game" (c. 1813-1907) certainly may have influenced these Uzbek and Afghan sabres with the distinct cleft pommels.

The Khanate of Bukhara was of course situated in Uzbekistan in the 18th century, and Uzbekistan included a notable part of Northern Afghanistan until the mid 19th century. As most of these sword forms evolved in these particular times amidst all of this geopolitical turmoil, then it seems almost futile to assign a distinct classification and pattern of features responsibly to any of them unless using other mitigating factors in their decoration etc.

What remains undisputed regardless, is that these 'Central Asian' sabres are some of the most intriguing, beautiful and exciting swords in the spectrum of the sabre.

Jim, while there may not be much in the way of new information since then there are a lot more images available.

W :eek: W!

I never heard of Bukharen shashqas until this thread! And what beautiful examples!

Amazing (putting eyes back in their sockets)

Bukhara shashkas from Russian museums.

By the way, a little more about the three rivet.

http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=4632

Beautiful Bukhara shashka of collection Gavin:

http://www.swordsantiqueweapons.com/s355_full.html

This seems to be a Bukharan shashka or is it?

Afghanistan...

Our esteemed Ariel suddenly remembered that in addition to Bukhara existed Khiva Khanate and existed Kokand Khanate ;)
And Ariel writes:

I have to repeat my post to Ariel understood me (forgive me for my bad english).

In this topic, I showed a few Shashka of Bukhara with three rivets. And I think that this is enough. Now you insist that I show Bukhara shashkas with large rivets. Perhaps you began to doubt that the shashkas, which you have shown (with small rivets) from Bukhara?
Do not worry. This is a good shashkas. I even a little jealous of you.

Here is shashkas of which I speak. They have small rivets, but you wrote yourself, it's Bukhara shashkas. I'm sorry that I remind you of this:

Beautiful!!

I know nothing about these swords. Any corelation between the brittleness of the handle scale material and the size/number of rivets?

I imagine it would be harder to drill the larger rivet holes in more brittle material like jade, agate and turqoise, than in softer material like wood, horn and ivory. Hence the use of multiple thinner pins/rivets.

Absolutely, Emmanuel.
If the handle of horn or wood - often large rivets. If the handle of stone or bone - small rivets.
But the main thing is the words Torben Flindt, who for some reason sometimes lead to misunderstanding that: "When wood or horn were used, the gripshells were held together by three to five rather large iron rivets whose size may be regarded as a Bukharan characteristic" :) while that seems not always exclusively the case.

With regards to the image presented by Ariel and re-presented by Mahratt, in particular the ivory hilted example, this is not Buhkara in my opinion, it is Afghan, North India.
I say this based on the small iron bolster present. This is typically a North Indian Karud feature, not a Bukhara feature.

Gavin