Lew don't tell me what I have to do I am not your son .


Ben

Let the people decide what they want to do you don't need to decide for them .


Ben

Ben

It was a constructive suggestion and your previous comment was uncalled for. You making this into a personal issue and it's not.


Lew

Your statement gives me some confort, for i am glad i'm not alone in that issue.
Fernando

Fernando

I collect just for the joy of collecting it is one of my true passions in my life.

Lew

This says solution not suggestion a way different or do I see this wrong



I really don t need your solution on what I do or not Lew I tougth I made this clear .



I think everyone has to be free in his choice with or with out price that is my point .


And I not intend to take things personal to anyone but it is only my reaction what I think .

I don't think it is normall to put anyone your will on that he has it to do the way you want and nothing else .

It is an free world . (at least overhere in the Netherlands)


It also would hurt people if they see an nice weapon that priced 10,000.00
and they see it sold in 2 days.


Ben

I've already stated my personal preference for seeing prices on Swap listings. That said, I don't think making a forum rule concerning how individuals can sell or trade is a good idea; the spectrum of possibilities makes it rather unenforcible anyway. And I'm sure there are less experienced sellers out there who would benefit from the offering process in the same way that inexperienced buyers would benefit from seeing prices of past sales.

However, I'd like to put out a few suggestions that may alleviate some transparency concerns while still maintaining fair value for the seller, and also may attract buyers like myself that shy away from the offering process. While it is often unclear what the market value is of a piece, normally someone selling an item has either a price below which they would not sell, or a price which they would take regardless of what they can get. In the former, a statement such as "accepting offers above $X.XX" would both preserve the ability to go higher and also give forumites an order of magnitude estimate of the value of the piece. Even auctions have an opening bid. In the latter, starting with a very high price and including the "or best offer" tag would serve a similar role.

Finally for those members who are interested in furthering the education of their fellow forumites, it would be nice if the final price of the sale were posted, although of course not necessarily the person who bought it.

Just my thoughts,

--Radleigh

I have been following this with interest...

When I first joined the forum, the swap area had mostly swops and items that were priced. This to me 'upheld' the aims of the forum, to learn, to educate within a community of 'like minded' individuals. By swopping it showed trust, helpfulness and comradery ...afterall it would be very unlikely that the financial value of the pieces swopped would be identical and aided the collections of those members. When items are priced ...it educates us as to the market values of such items and increases our knowledge as to what is reasonable amount to pay for our 'beloved' sharp, pointy things.

Now it is rare to see stated prices, this 'smacks' of commercialism, selling weapons to a 'captive' market at no cost to the seller. This does not benefit the 'community' as a whole....the only beneficary is the seller, whom can increase his profit with this 'closed auction' system.

If a seller is using the swop forum to make profit, that is fine, but state the price. If you are not prepared to list a price or 'offers in the region of' then use EBAY.

This is my opinion of the overall situation, it is not aimed at anyone individually.

Kind Regards David

It also would hurt people if they see an nice weapon that priced 10,000.00
and they see it sold in 2 days.


Ben[/QUOTE]


Ben

It would not hurt me at all I am quite aware of what I can afford to spend on an item so if someone with deep pockets buys it good for them and I hope they are happy with there purchase. At the Timonium auction this past March many swords went for over 25,000 USD and that is fine with me I did not loose any sleep over it. :)

Lew

Ditto Lew; I see stuff sold on for sale sites and Ebay everyday I can't afford. Some of it, I wouldn't want to spend that price even if I could. Doesn't mean it isn't worth what was paid for it to the seller or to the buyer, just that I have no interest in being a part of that particular market.

We not on ebay overhere



Ben

All the more reason why one could expect to see higher prices here, and not be "hurt"

Hi,
To possibly satisfy all parties why not have an " Offers Over " system as advocated by Radleigh, e.g. an item is advertised at Offers Over a price selected by the seller, those who are interested will know roughly what kind of price is anticipated and can offer what they want over that price, the seller can either accept immediately or set a closing date for offers i.e. a date after which no more offers are sought, and then decide which offer to accept on the proviso of course that they, the seller, is not obliged to accept the highest or indeed any offer. This is still a form of closed auction but is has been the way Scottish real estate has been sold for a very long time and seems to work well for both buyer and seller. In the case of property, of course, most people would seek independent 'expert' advice on price.
Regards,
Norman.

I have no authority as a moderator in this particular forum....but i do have some close friends who do. ;)
I strongly suggest that this conversation gets civil fast or this topic might very well become one that you might only be able to discuss one-to-one in PMs. :eek:

I don't think it is so dificult to separate the waters.
After all, it is all a question of good faith. We all (i mean all) know the purpose this comunity.
It is a common event to post a piece in the main discussion Forum, to ask the opinnion of members, eventually from those more qualified in the said piece. Within the same logic, one can post a piece in the swap Forum with the intention to ask the members how much that piece is worth, according to their experience and different geographic situation ... prices are not the same in the various countries, or market areas.
This also doesn't impeach one to decide to sell the said piece, after having made such consultation.
Other than that, i don't think is reasonable to come around with articles for commercial purposes, one after the other, and instigate the members to make offers, on a permanent basis. By mentioning the term offers i am not intending to individualize the issue; i could as well mention other kind of unorthodox procedures, considering a place where profit stands ( or should stand) in the end of the priorities queue.
It's the doing this by system that is at question, not a sporadic attitude.
This to say that rules aren't necessarily what is needed here, but moderation instead. Moderators are there to diagnosis vicious processes and intervene by calling this or that person's attention with injections of common sense.
One thing is inequivocous and of general agreement; the Forum is not a business place. One can be a buyer, a seller, a non buyer or a non seller.
We all surely know in which waters we are sailing, when we come in here.
With all respect, Gentlemen
Fernando

David,

I do agree with you.

Gentlemen, C'est le ton qui fait la musique!! No offense, but some members do pick the wrong string. That kind of music doesn't sound very nice.

That we act like little children while collecting, ok!! But not when we are discussing on this sophisticated forum.

It looks that some peopke get hurt with no price on it .


Ben

My Items are for sale or trade so you don't need money to get an Item from me .


Ben

Sorry Ben, i am not adressing you in particular ... you don't need bother replying.
I wish you all the best
Met vriendelijke groeten
Fernando

Like David and some others, I am concerned about the tone of this thread. It seems obvious that some sellers do not want to post prices. I doubt that any amount of argument will change their minds, and, truthfully it is their prerogative NOT to post prices and just ask for offers.

Personally I do not make offers unless there is a stated price, then, I may ask for maybe a 10% discount. This is my prerogative, my right.

I had a bad experience with a dealer. Not anyone who advertises here. I find it foolish that this dealer chose to antagonize someone who buys as many high end expensive pieces as I do. But he did. His mistake. I will not buy from him again. I do not make offers. But this is just me, because I had a bad experience with one person.

I see no reason as to why a seller has a "make offers", BUT if that is how they want to handle their business, that is up to them. Their right, and I think it is very much amiss (and against the overall tone of this fine Forum) that these sellers be criticized for their business policy.

Obviously this method of sales works for them.

Personally as the original poster of this thread, I think it has said about all it needs to say -- and too much more -- and I would suggest that David and his friends close it.

80 posts on this subject are enough.

I am not concerned about the tone but what some people try to do in this thread that is what we should be not forget .

I think anyone should be able to choose offer or no offer .

Ben

Indeed time to close this thread, Bill.

Moderators, please........

I ALSO AGREE JUST ABOUT ALL THAT CAN BE SAID HAS BEEN SAID.

BUT :D :D :D :p
THIS TOPIC GIVES YOU SOME IDEAS OF THE OPINIONS AND THE DIFERENCES AMOUNG COLLECTORS, SELLERS AND SELLER-COLLECTORS. WE ARE ALL ALIKE IN SOME WAYS OF THINKING AND DIFFERENT IN OTHERS, WE ARE A GROUP FROM VARIOUS DIFFERENT COUNTRYS, BACKGROUNDS, RACES, LEVELS OF EDUCATION AND ECONOMIC ABILITYS THIS ALSO INFLUENCES OUR WAYS OF THINKING. BUT REGARDLESS OF ALL THAT WE ALL HAVE SOMETHING TO CONTRIBUTE TO THIS FORUM.
WE ALL LOVE A GOOD DEAL AND HATE TO GET TAKEN. SOME ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THE MONEY MAKEING END OF COLLECTING AND SOME ARE. IT IS A KIND OF WAY OF KEEPING SCORE AND IT WOULD BE BETTER FOR US ALL TO MAKE MONEY ON OUR ITEMS WHEN WE SELL THAN TO LOSE. I AM NOT GOOD AT MARKET VALUES SO I HESITATE TO MAKE BLIND OFFERS OR TO TAKE OFFERS THAT ALSO MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO TRADE IF I SEE A PRICE I CAN AFFORD I JUMP IN IF IT IS OUT OF MY LEAGUE I GO GET A DRINK :D .
I DON'T THINK THIS POST STARTED TO CRITISIZE A SELLER BUT TO ASK A QUESTION SO IT SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AN ATTACK BY ANYONE AND THINGS HAVE BEEN LEARNED FROM IT SO IT WAS WORTH DOING.
WE ALL HAVE DIFFERENT STYLES AND PERSONALITYS AND SOME OF US WILL NATURALLY RUB THE OTHERS THE WRONG WAY AND MISUNDERSTANDINGS AND ARGUMENTS WILL HAPPEN BUT THEY DON'T NEED TO CARRY OVER INTO THE FORUM. I AM SURE SOME DON'T LIKE MY USE OF ALL CAP'S OR PHILOSOPHY WHEN I HAVE NO DEGREE, BUT I CAN BE SERIOUS AND HAVE FUN AT THE SAME TIME :p

MY PERSONEL CONSENSIS: NO NEW FORUM RULES NEED BE DRAWN UP, IF DEALERS WANT TO SELL OR SWAP THEIR ITEMS ITS OK. PRICES OR NOT. THERE IS NO SHAME IN COMMING DOWN ON YOUR FIRST POSTED PRICE IF YOU GET NO OFFERS :cool: IF A SELLER JUST ADVERTIZES HIS AUCTIONS OR STORE HE MAY GET SOME BUSINESS IF HIS STOCK IS WORTHY OTHERWISE HE IS WASTEING HIS TIME ON OUR SWAP FORUM. DID I MISS ANYTHING ;)

This is an good thing you come up with Vandoo .

I agree on this .

Ben

I agree also.