bubbling up again
 

This establishes the use of chert/flint and is a continuation of form although different in construction. As we know flint was exported so a variation in construction should be expected. The same form can also be seen on a New Caledoean club if you scroll through Oceania. The same bird head club,pick,war hammer? is widespread, seen in many Islands in these parts of the South Western Pacific.

http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...a/1900.55.178/

More reference to the use of flint. Solomons

http://www.jstor.org/pss/1782830

I have just recevieved a book "The Traditional Pottery of Papua New Guinea"

Okay the book is not about weapons however it does cast a very bright light on trading.

We accept the trade of European steel weapons and lets call it the Red Sea trade of steel weapons to areas without the skill to produce quite the same weapon or if not so much the skill but quantity.

The trading could help explain why one cannot point to another club exactly the same. As mentioned before it may seem strange to us why a nodule of flint might be so valuable. This series of picture shows the scale of trading. They also show how flint would be traded to islands that naturally have no flint. As I am a bit dumb and slow I will do this by a series of replies to this post.

This picture shows pots ready to be traded by the Muto people, an annual trading festival and expidition known as "Hiri" Also a picture of the trading canoe. The pictures are turn of the 19/20th century.
These expeditions included the Torres Straits Islands, we know from previous post of the trade of flint from Australia from Cape York to the Torres Straits possibly other islands. I am sure they could put a few stone in this trading canoe even if it was just balast.

These pictures show what lengths some people have to go to to obtain substances we just do not think about. A there and back trip from Nabwageta Island to Fergusson Island of say 40KM must put some value on the clay as raw material. Could put a few stones in the bottom of the canoe?

Taking the goodies home to the far flung Islands. Could put a few stones in the canoe here too.

I guess. In North America, they were trading copper from the great lakes for shell from the gulf. Or the anasazi were getting macaw feathers and chocolate from Mexico.

I'd guess that trade's an old, old human phenomenon. That said, it's still fun to see those pictures.

F

Fearn,
Researching "Hiri trade" I have found stuff that suggests, not only according the the book on pottery is it an annual festival as a prelude to a trading enterprise. It seems there may be such a thing as the Hiri curculation rather like the the trade winds of the Atlantic sea trade.

A true 'Waterworld' , Tim . :)
But ....


Without Dennis Hopper .. :D

Thanks
 

After a great deal of rambling and learning we have a conculsion to this club. I would like to thank you all for many hours of frustration and great entertainment.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9591

There is the possibility that it may even be Ona Patagonia which would make it a very rare item indeed if it is not already. :)

Stupidly, I posted this comment on this thread
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9591 when it should be on this one :o

Hi Tim,
the illustration of the 'stone headed' club shows that it is mounted to the side of the shaft......yours is mounted on top. So I am not so certain that we can ID yours from the drawing.

Regards David

Up Date.
 

I have received a reply from the British Museum Collection Enquiries. This I have to say was rather disappointing. To be fair the curators were only working from not the best photographs. They are also not the personnel that have daily access to the less distinctive items in the miles of boxes in the Museum store building, which is four stories high. In the very early 1980s I worked as a registrar in the African department {pre computer, pen and ink drawing of items in the collection} I could have told you it was not African. The letter is here for you all to read. It is some what sitting on the fence I feel. I am most reluctant to leave the item with them, also to expect every box of all geographic areas to be opened to match materials is a little unreasonable. So I have decided to tackle the problem another way.

Today I kept an appointment with a Dr Peter Gasson working in the Jodrell laboratory at the Royal Botanic Gardens Kew. Three samples of wood were taken from the haft of the club with the minimum of damage. There and then from the transverse sample I was shown through the microscope that although light to handle it is a hard wood. The work will be on going so I expect a final analysis in about a months time. This procedure may not answer all the questions on the club. If only a genus is identified then I could still be no further on in the hunt for an origin however I am feeling confident that we are not look at something like Oak. On the other hand it could well be an unknown species, all in the air really. I am wondering if it is some kind of palm wood. I really do hope I get somewhere? keeping my fingers crossed as this is going to cost 3/5th of what I paid for the club. What ever the result good or bad I will keep you all informed.

I wouldn't be surprised if this club originated from Australia...

Here's a link showing a modern aboriginal elder making a stone hatchet.

http://earthsci.org/aboriginal/index.html#restoreaxe

http://earthsci.org/aboriginal/axehe...ges/oldaxe.jpg

The technique of binding is very similar. With regards to the 'telegraph' wire, this type of insulated wire is similar to that used in old houses over here, and the aboriginal people are famous for their ingenuity in combining new materials with ancient technological methods (i.e. flint-knapping glass of broken beer bottles to make spear heads in remote areas up to the 1960's and later).

I can't say for sure it's an 100% Australian Aboriginal artefact, but it would not look out of place in the Australian Aboriginal material culture of the early 20th century.

Comming in rather late here.
Looks very neolithic to me. A poor flint or /often refered to as chert (sometimes not entirely accurately).
I find the simple shaping also reminds me of neolithic tools.
Any chance its a victorian 'authentic' rehafting of a British Neolithic club?
I've seen EBA stuff remounted in the 19thC.

If it is Australian or even Australasian the the analysis should have no problem in finding the answer. It is what I have thought right from the start. The problem lies in the cell structure of a genus that is common to vast areas of the world like Oak. I bet the wood is from the southern hemisphere anyway.

Good luck, Tim.

I suspect you'll get a good answer on the wood ID if it's tropical. Even oak wood is variable enough that they can get it to at least subgenus, if not species. The only challenge is whether they have that species in their type collection or not.

On the other hand, it's good to know that we came up with the same answer as the collections managers of the British Museum (i.e. what the heck is it?). Kudos to us.

Best,

F

Kew results, good in parts.
 

Email to me, 30 December 2009

Dear Mr Simmons

I have now microscopically examined the wood fragments we took from your club handle on 30 October. The closest anatomical match I can find is with the wood of Ligustrum sp., Privet. There are about 40 species in this genus, 1 in Europe, 1 in North Africa but most in East and Southeast Asia. This does seem to throw some doubt on the club being from southern South America, but depending on its age there is always the possibility that the wood was imported.


Yours sincerely

Peter Gasson


Dr Peter Gasson
Jodrell Laboratory
Royal Botanic Gardens
Kew
Richmond
Surrey
TW9 3DS

So no actual species identified but with further research on the net, species of the genus Ligustrum are found throughout Malaysia to Australia. I do not have the funds to get the results photographed and pursue this course of enquiry further worldwide. However I do feel that the results give some backing to my original opinions and findings on the object. I do not know how early non-native Privet were introduced to Australia but can say that {ref the wire on the handle} telecommunication started from the late 1850s.

Privet. Hmmmm. Interesting finding. I don't see a lowland tropical Ligustrum species on the list yet, so I'm not buying Torres Strait Islands. Without testing the bark binding (hey, why not disassemble it completely and test the rock head too? :D:D:D) I think the best guess is that the handle came out of someone's hedge or weed patch.

Great that you're doing this research, Tim. At least, now we know where to go when we have these types of questions next time.

Best,

F

What does the Australian Privet Hawk Moth grub eat?

Ummmmmm, the privet hawk moth (Psilogramma menephron) caterpillars eat members of the families Bignoniaceae and Oleaceae, including "olive trees (Olea europaea, OLEACEAE), but is perhaps most often found in suburbia on privet (Ligustrum vulgare, OLEACEAE ), jasmine (Jasminum officinale, OLEACEAE ), and Australian native olive (Olea paniculata, OLEACEAE)" (ref). You were perhaps expecting that because it is found in the tropical Pacific, therefore privet is found there too? :shrug:

Best,

F

F, are you stating that there are no Australasia Ligustrum, native Privets or related species? Dr Gasson did say "closest anatomical match". Perhaps you have access to better examples to match the results too? If so that would greatly help your most learned contributions so far to the thread.

Possibility for Wood identification??
 

In Australia, the Ligustrum privet species (some of which are classified as introduced and pests where they are prolific) are sometimes easily confused with the native Grey Myrtle shrub/ tree [BACKHOUSIA MYRTIFOLIA] . The wood from this tree is recorded as being favoured by aboriginal groups in Queensland specifically for axe handles! and also known locally in the past as 'neverbreak' wood...so it's not impossible for this club to be of Northern Australian provenance.

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache...&ct=clnk&gl=au

http://www.shoalhaven.nsw.gov.au/cou...ms/native2.jpg
Grey Myrtle

http://www.iewf.org/weedid/images/Li...formationl.JPG

Ligustrum privet

Perhaps it is privet/olive like plant family-Oleaceae all would be to some degree similar?, that is far more inclusive though.

Thanks Bryan Northern Australia is of course where flint mines are mentioned in a much earlier link.

I think Ligustrum undulatum is a native Australian privet. I imagine they are all quite hard and useful for tools and utensils.

Hi All,

Thing to watch (as Tim already noticed) is the scientific name, not the common name. The wood expert narrowed it to either Ligustrum or something similar to it in the Oleaceae (the olive family).

I'm being annoying in pointing out that I'm not seeing evidence of a tropical privet. Northern Australia is tropical, and Torres Islands are further north (e.g. closer to the equator) than mainland Australia. The fact that the Privet hawk moth is all through the Pacific isn't good evidence, because it eats things other than privet.

Now, I don't have university access right now, so I can't easily find out if there's a close tropical relative of Ligustrum hanging out in the Torres Strait area. If the wood is privet (e.g. Ligustrum species), it strongly suggests that the club was made in a subtropical or temperate setting, somewhere where privet grows.

Best,

F

At last bumf on the stone.
 

From the "Australian Museum Sydney" a wonderful paper back book/pamphlet "Australian Aboriginal Stone Implements" 1976 F. D. McCarthy. I post here {if okay with the moderators} a few paragraphs that I hope try to boil down and keep in context, also show how fresh this study is. The books main concentration is what it calls prehistoric camp sites but this is Australia and without solid provable dating prehistoric could only really mean from the early 19th century. My club would be described as a "partially trimmed coroid club" there is some continuity of form when one looks at "fig 61 image no5" which also happens to have been traded quite far. I cannot post the whole book.

Barry if you do not already have this, then you need it. It is cheap, shipping cost more than the book.

Another picture which I could not fit in the last post.

There has been several stone clubs and knives sold by one Australian seller on ebay. These pieces have made go prices. I have kept pictures of one of the examples as it shows the very same way binding the stone which seemed to cause some consern. This club is generally just a litte smaller than my example. It did however go for more than double I paid for mine but I suppose that was a while back.

Tim,

Here is an illustration from the book "History of Mankind" by F Ratzel. The stone club described as from Brazil.

This study kind of puts the Kibosh on the long held view that flint/chert was not available to much of the volcanic South Pacific.


file:///C:/Users/Tim/Downloads/Ward%20&%20Smith%201974%20Mankind%209%20[2].pdf

Copy and paste what is above might work, if not use the link below.

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...STIGATION_1974