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Hello Alan,
What a pleasure to have you post on this thread, which I am glad you have found interesting, and the subject of the 'sea Dyaks' is one that I had in mind when I first started the topic. The objective here has been to add dimension to the now cliche' term 'pirate' and examine the broader scope of piracy worldwide as well as the equally broad scope of weaponry used. I have seen the Dyak 'mandau' or parang ihlang, which I think is the proper term for these interesting swords, among groupings of 'pirate' weapons in some of the rather cursory books on pirates. I thought it was interesting that what seemed at first a 'coffee table' book, actually stepped outside the bounds of the 'Pirates of the Caribbean' image. That and several other notes that indicated the very widespread and still extant social phenomenon known as piracy was indeed quite much more complex than its romanticized treatment in literature. Thank you very much for your concise and intriguing description of the Dyaks, which perfectly adds the perspective needed in expanding our understanding of piracy and its true dimension. With all very best regards, Jim |
Jim, as far as actual pirate weaponry goes, I reckon the real pirates used whatever they had to hand. I've even seen a picture of keris somewhere that was supposedly taken from a pirate.
As for expanding the concept of "pirates" and their weapons --- how about corporations, their CEO's, and the teams of accountants, lawyers and other specialists that they call upon? These blokes make Edward Teach look like a gentleman. |
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the definition of pirates also includes those who raid the land from the sea, the iban would fit this definition i'd say. another site with a legal definition of pirate under international law also implies the inclusion of land raids from the sea and taking slaves. Pirate definition
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" Yes, as through this world I've wandered I've seen lots of funny men; Some will rob you with a six-gun, And some with a fountain pen. " |
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The pirates were in many ways big business, and the letter of marque was often accented with syndicated business ventures....much like the one that sent Captain Kidd to his fate, the victim of 'corporate deceit'. There are more ways to rob and kill than with traditional weapons, much more insidious methods that take away someones livelihood for example....but thats really discussion for another forum. As you have said, the pirates used whatever weapons they could get thier hands on. While they supposedly had a 'code' ("..more of a guideline") :) there was no 'dress code' nor regulation weaponry to be sure! Their manner of dress often became rather flamboyant, and as discussed on a concurrent thread, depended greatly on psychological effect to shock and frighten their victims as they overcame them. It seems this imagery may well have included the brandish of frightening and sometimes exotic weapons when they had them. To see a motley mass of loud, bizarre and foppishly festooned ruffians armed 'to the teeth' and waving around frightening swords with formidable blades would seem pretty convincing. While we know that the short bladed hanger type swords were preferred for crowded on deck melee's, the use of more exotic weapons might have put on quite a show as the ships drew close. Obviously also included might have been all manner of battle and boarding axes, and heaven knows what other items. Best regards, Jim |
Yes, Kidd was a very interesting character; backed by some prominent Manhattan citizens if I remember correctly .
Killed a man with a bucket 'tis said . They say there's still treasure unfound on Gardiner's Island . But it will take another Pirate to find it . ;) |
I really do not want to start something here that could see this thread degenerate into a debate on the meanings of words. However, I must point out that the English language is not used in exactly the same way in all those countries that use a form of this language.
I am located in Australia, and I have found that in legal applications two dictionaries are accepted as sufficient evidence to establish the generally accepted meaning of a word. These dictionaries are the Macquarie Dictionary, which is an Australian compilation, and the Oxford Dictionary. I prefer the Oxford Dictionary because that has a greater possibility of acceptance outside Australia. The Oxford dictionary that I use as my everyday tool is the Shorter Oxford on Historical Principles. In this dictionary the word "pirate" is provided with a number of meanings. In the context of this discussion no meaning is given that covers the act of piracy from the sea, but only on the sea. The Sea Dyaks did not as a general rule attack ships on the sea. They used watercraft to transport warriors along river systems and to attack settlements on land. In Britain in 1839, or in Britain today, I believe it would be very difficult to get a conviction against the Dyaks for piracy. Yes, you could get them for something else, but not piracy. Not in Britain. They were unjustly accused because the pirates of two hundred years ago had a similar aura to the terrorists of today. It was political expediancy. Brookes and the British Government branded the Sea Dyaks as pirates, and the language used for this defamation was the English language. I submit that this was an incorrect use of language which resulted in the defamation of a tribal group for political purposes. Pirates with fountain pens? Yep. And computers too. |
Hi Kronckew
That link is certainly a very good sinthesis of piracy definition. But let me please add some points to it. It seems as the first traces of piracy registered, are a bit earlier than the phoenitian period, and remount to the Sumerian civilization, some five thousand years ago. They are engraved in clay plaques, in cuneiform script, relating atacks by a Barbarian people, the Guti, against Sumerian navigators. From then on piracy was practiced by plenty peoples and nations, which makes it very dificult to restrict such exercize to this or that entity, in this or that area. The most unsuspected guys have, at least in a certain period, given a hand to it. How's about Columbus having participated in corsair actions under instructions of the Portuguese King? This brings us to the point i would like to emphasize. Although implemented by different social behaviours, privateering ( corso ) can not be separated from piracy, as the practices inflicted are the same. We can say it is even a worse issue, as pirates were no more than free lance bandits, whereas corsairs were "fine officers" legalized by Kings to practice piracy, say banditism. So the s ... was the same, only the flies changed. This brings us to the theme of the thread, which deals with weaponry used by pirates. I think this is in the wide sense, that is, privateers included. My i assume that, Jim ? By the way and returning to topic, i have read that the Moors from North Africa, when doing piratic acts on the Portuguese coast, used crossbows. How's that ? Fernando |
Hi Alan
No doubt the convergent language in the forum is english, but the interpretation of things by the different members envolves rather diverse languages and cultures, which makes it a bot more complex. Nevertheless i happen to have the 1969 edition of an Oxford Universal Dictionary first published in 1933. It says there that, a pirate is one who robs and plunders on the sea; a sea robber, etc. In a Portuguese dictionary published in 2004, a pirate is one who atacks and robs ships; a corsair. But here i think the main preocupation of modern atributions to piracy are those that concern informatic and stuff like that. However it is of common knowledge that piracy ( and privateering ), although implemented on the sea, often contextualy extended its action to land. I guess that people atacking on an inland business basis, independently from their cause, would have another name :shrug: Fernando |
Beautifully said Alan! and again, thank you for bringing this most applicable perspective on the definition of the term pirate, and its convenient distortion in legal parlance. This absolutely brings perspective to our discussion not typically seen in the standard references.
Fernando, thank you for bringing in the historical perspective of piracy overall, and indeed privateers were pirates, however 'licensed' with letters of marque. The problem was, the very thin line of observation in exercising those letters of marque, using privately owned ships to prey on enemy shipping, in sort of an 'outsourced' concept. Since the pay of the seamen depended virtually on the materials and loot acquired in these ventures, often when no enemy vessels were available, mutinous conditions arose. This was essentially one of the problems encountered by Kidd, and others likewise turned to any vessel they encountered with good promise of bounty. Rick, I think the money they discovered on Gardiners Island was probably deliberately planted as backup in just the situation that ensued. I often wonder if there was indeed more found and the proceeds deliberately undeclared and distributed among his unscrupulous 'partners'. Getting rid of Kidd certainly eliminated the key witness ! I think the 'treasure' is in the tale itself, and the adventures that guarantee speculators, tourism and the never ending search for it :) All best regards, Jim |
Yes Fernando, in general terms of course we can consider that piracy has a broader meaning than the one I am prepared to give it.
However, I was not speaking in general terms, but in quite specific terms, in reference to Brookes, the British Government, and the Sea Dyaks or Iban. Examination of the circumstances of this matter can leave no doubt that the Sea Dyaks were created by Brookes, and dubbed "pirates", even though they were not pirates in a sense that would be understood by a speaker of Standard English at the time they were so created. It was political opportunism.Just that. And it has stuck for going on 200 years. The reason I made reference to the variation in application of various understandings to words in the English language is that this language has a very large number of variations, Kronckew used an American English dictionary as his reference, but it would be quite illogical to use a modern dictionary of American English to define the way in which an Englishman in 1839 would understand a particular word. In any case, let's leave our Ibans, but let's leave them without the stigma of being pirates. They were not. |
LETTERS OF MARKE MADE YOU A LEGAL PIRATE TO YOUR BOSS BUT JUST A PIRATE TO YOUR ENEMYS . A LIFE OF PIRACY WAS OFTEN MORE A RESULT OF CIRCUMSTANCES THAN OF WORDS. IF A CREW MUTINIED OR A CAPTIAN FAILED IN A VITAL MISSION FOR HIS KING IT COULD CAUSE THEM TO BECOME PEOPLE WITHOUT A COUNTRY SO PIRACY WOULD THEN BECOME A COURSE FOR SURVIVAL. THE DEFINITIONS OF PIRACY WERE ALL MADE UP BY LAWMAKERS AGAINST VARIOUS GROUPS FOR DIFFERENT REASONS AND LIKE WITCHCRAFT PROOF WAS OFTEN NOT NEEDED AS AN ACCUSATION WOULD LEAD TO EXECUTION. SOME LARGE PIRATE FLEETS WERE ORGANIZED BY WARLORDS ESPECIALLY IN THE AREA OF CHINA AND THEY CONSIDERED ANYTHING IN THEIR AREA FAIR GAME ON SEA OR LAND NEAR THE SEA OR RIVERS.
THE MAJORITY OF TRIBAL PEOPLE WOULD FOLLOW THE USUAL CUSTOMS OF THE TRIBE AS ALAN POINTED OUT WITH THE DAYAKS. IT IS EASY TO SEE WHY IT WOULD BE NECESSARY TO CHANGE THE FACTS A BIT TO GET THE BACKING TO CHANGE THESE TRIBES OLD CUSTOMS AND BRING THEM IN LINE WITH HIS GOALS AND LAWS. SOME DAYAKS PROBABLY FOUND THEIR WAY TO PIRACY FOR THE ADVENTURE AND LOOT, OR IF THEY WERE OUTCAST FROM THEIR TRIBE OR IF ENSLAVED. A LOCAL TRIBESMAN HANGING AROUND A TRADEING PORT MIGHT FIND HIMSELF FULL OF RUM AND SIGNED ON A SHIP BEFORE HE WOKE UP. AS MENTIONED ABOVE THE PIRATES ARE A GROUP WHO USED PSYCOLOGICAL WARFARE, BLACKBEARD TRIED TO LOOK LIKE A DEAMON AND TO BUILD HIMSELF A FIERCE REPUTATION THIS WORKED IN HIS FAVOR AND MADE HIM MORE FAMOUS WHICH WAS IMPORTANT TO HIM. SOME OF THE OTHERS MENTIONED ABOVE USED BRUTALITY AND EXTREME CRUELTY TO BUILD THEIR REPUTATION SO ALL WOULD FEAR THEM OR BECAUSE THEY WERE HOMOCIDEL MAINACS. SOME PIRATES WOULD RUN UP THIER BLACK FLAG AND IF IT WAS A KNOWN FLAG IT SIGNALED SURRENDER NOW OR NO QUARTER WILL BE GIVEN. OFTEN THAT WOULD YEILD A EASY VICTORY WHICH MOST PIRATES PREFERED AND THE SPARED CREW WOULD SPREAD THE STORY AND DESCRIBE THE FLAG ADDING TO THEIR REPUTATION. THEY MAY HAVE SPARED SOMEONE ON A SHIP THAT DID NOT SURRENDER FOR THE SAME REASON SO HE COULD TELL OF THE HORRIBLE FATE OF HIS CREWMATES AT THE HANDS OF THE PIRATE WITH THE BLACK FLAG WITH THE RED SKULL. WITH ALL THE DEFINITIONS OF PIRATES WERE THE VIKINGS PIRATES? THEY CAME FROM THE SEA TO ATTACK TOWNS AND WOULD ALSO ATTACK A FORIGN SHIP AT SEA. IF SO VIKING SWORDS,SPEARS,SHIELDS AND AX CAN BE ADDED TO PIRATE WEAPONS. SOME OF THEIR HORNED HELMETS AS WELL AS THEIR FIERCE WAR CRYS COULD ALSO BE CONSIDERED AS PSYCOLOGICAL WEAPONS. :cool: IT WOULD SEEM THE ONE THING THAT ALL PIRATES MUST HAVE IN COMMON IS THEIR PRIMARY MEANS OF TRANSPORT, RESIDENCE AND BASE OF OPERATIONS IS A SHIP OR A FLEET OF THEM. IF YOU DO THE SAME THINGS AS PIRATES ONLY ON LAND AND TRAVEL BY HORSE YOU ARE CALLED A HORDE. :) |
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Another example of similar types of acts (inland raids from the sea) that we don't tend to call piracy would be the Viking raids. |
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I'm really glad to have the application of the term pirate resolved and most interestingly analyzed, as well as the explanation for how the term was misapplied to the Iban. It is always good to have the actual perspective on often misunderstood historical events and situations.
I am hoping we can return to looking into the weaponry of the pirates, perhaps considering the weapon forms they might have gained access to in thier capturing of vessels. For example, the "Quedah Merchant" captured by Kidd would likely have had a variety of Indian weapons that would have appealed to the seamen, and kept for the brandishing previously mentioned. It seems we have discussed Indian weapons with heavy and shorter blades that might have served on Indian vessels, possibly those might resurface here. Most importantly, I have not yet seen any examples of the most prevalent weapon likely seen aboard pirate vessels..the cutlass. Naturally this term, as terminology seems key in this discussion, is rather loosely applied to heavy, short bladed weapons, many with large guards for the hand. The heavy 'Sinclair sabre' (another well known misnomer) of N.Europe and other heavy short sabres of the 17th century were likely candidates, but the hunting hangers of English and European gentry of mid 17th century found even more established favor. Hopefully we might see examples of these that would represent the 'Golden Age' (1670's-1720's) as well as the later regulation naval patterns that would see use as piracy prevailed in varying degree wherever trade vessels went. All best regards, Jim |
I agree that in a loose, general sense, the application of the term "pirate" can be extended far beyond the strict dictionary definition that I am prepared to accept in the case of the Iban and Brooke, however, as I have already stated, I am not writing in general terms. My remarks apply specifically to the case of the Iban, Brooke, and the British government.
In casual conversation we can use language in a very flexible manner. We can do the Humpty Dumpty thing and make our words mean what we want them to mean.We can even be as Mrs. Malaprop, and people will still understand us, and not take us to task for it. However, in any exchange of ideas there comes a point where we need to determine exactly what we mean when we use a word. The word "pirate" has a very distinct and very quantifiable value when we apply the test of correct usage. That value can change from place to place, and from time to time. In those countries which use American English, and most particularly in the second half of the 20th. century, it is clearly quite legitimate to extend the boundaries of the value of the word "pirate". For example, in colloquial usage, we can pirate another man's woman, and by the pirating thereof, we become a pirate. But this is 20th century, colloquial usage. It is not the usage that would apply in the 1840's, at a government level, in England. In England, in the first half of the 19th century, the memory of pirates, and their continuing existence, was still very real. At that time, and in that place the term "pirate" was on a par with the term "terrorist" , today. When Brooke approached the British government for assistance he was well aware that his requests would receive better consideration if he used the emotive term "pirate", rather than to describe the rice farmers of the inland hill country as marauding tribesmen, or something similar. So, all these small groups of rice farmers were overnight turned into "Sea Dyaks" and "pirates". Pirates attack ships at sea, and interfere with international trade. In 1839 England was at the height of its glorious days of Empire. How could a request to eliminate the wolves of the sea be denied? So Brooke with the help of a friend of long standing, a Captain Keppel,got his assistance, and set about establishing his minor kingdom. But it took until the early years of the 20th century before the Brookes were able bring all the "Sea Dyaks" to heel. The major reason for the Iban taking of heads is that it formed an integral part of the culture's system of sexual selection, just as the weaving of the Iban women established the hierarchy for Iban females. As such, the taking of heads was essential for the continued viability of any tribal group, within the culture. The Iban were behaving in accordance with long established cultural traditions of the place where they lived. When James Brooke arrived on the River Sarawak he brought with him the values of a foriegn culture, and he set about applying those values to the cultures which he intended to dominate. Brooke had no problem at all with the Iban taking heads and slaves, provided those Iban gave their allegiance to Brooke, and paid their taxes. So now tell me:- who exactly was the pirate here? Was it the Iban, living in their own country and in accordance with the traditions of that country, or was it James Brooke, who with the assistance of the British Government effectively invaded the country of the Iban and imposed taxation upon them? The name of this forum implies that the participants have some knowledge and understanding of the ethnic values applicable to those weapons and cultures which are discussed here. I would most humbly suggest that before applying the label of "pirate" to the Iban, it may be a very good idea to learn a little about this culture, and the way in which the Brookes and Britain destroyed it. We all know that victors write the history books. The Iban were not pirates in any sense of the word. |
Beautifully and profoundly written Alan. I think you have well established the ethnographic perspective concerning the Iban tribe and that the placing of them among the unsavory category of pirates is categorically incorrect.
As I mentioned, I'm really very glad that you posted here on this topic and that you have so well clarified the importance of understanding the much deeper traditions and cultures of these tribal groups. I think that with that established, there remains the possibility that the sea going marauders that were indeed pirates, and obtained these deadly and formidable appearing parangs might have wielded them effectively for the purposes previously described. While the Sea Dyaks, or Iban, were absolutely not pirates, thier weapons might have found pirate use. All very best regards, and thank you again for the outstanding perspective. Jim |
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A WEAPON THAT WAS USED TO GOOD EFFECT WERE THE SWIVEL GUNS, THE ORIGIN IS SUPPOSED TO BE EUROPE AND THEY FOUND THEIR WAY TO CHINA AND KOREA LATER AND WERE VERY POPULAR THERE. IN INDONESIA,MALAYSIA,BORNEO AND PHILIPPINES THEY WERE OFTEN CALLED LANTKA. THEY WERE EASILY MOVED FROM PLACE TO PLACE AND WERE EASILY LOADED AND COULD BE HIDDEN UNTIL THE ENEMY WAS CLOSE THEN MOUNTED AND FIRED QUICKLY. THEY WERE AN ANTI PERSONEL WEAPON DESIGNED MOSTLY TO FIRE AT CLOSE RANGE AND CLEAR THE DECKS. THEY WERE USUALLY LOADED WITH MULTIPLE PROJECTILES AND MOST ANYTHING COULD BE USED AS LONG AS IT FIT DOWN THE BARREL. A STICK WAS PLACED IN THE SOCKET AT THE BACK TO GIVE THE GUNNER SOME DISTANCE FROM IT AND ALSO TO GIVE LEVERAGE WHEN SWIVELING IT. THESE EXAMPLES ARE ALL FROM BORNEO AND THE 2 ARE INDONESIAN.
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SOME EUROPEAN VERSIONS AND ONE THAT LEWIS AND CLARK TOOK ALONG ON THEIR EXPLORATIONS. SOME WERE BREACH LOADERS.
A INTERESTING BIT OF INFO. IN THE 1970'S AN AMERICAN FROM FLORIDA SUBMITTED A REQUEST TO THE GOVERNMENT FOR LETTERS OF MARKE. HIS PROPOSITION WAS THAT HE WOULD PREY ON ALL THE DRUG RUNNERS AROUND FLORIDA AND GET TO SELL THE VESSELS AND CONTENTS AND KEEP ANY MONEY AND WOULD TURN OVER ANY DRUGS TO THE GOVERNMENT. DURING THIS TIME A TYPE OF PIRATE WAS PREVELENT THRUOUT THE CARIBEAN THEY WOULD SIGN ON AS CREW HERE AND KILL THE OWNERS ONCE AT SEA AND USE THE BOATS TO RUN DRUGS. MANY BOATS WERE ALSO TAKEN BY SPEED BOATS FULL OF DRUG PIRATES AND ALL ON BOARD KILLED. MANY SAIL BOATS AS WELL AS POWER BOATS AND CREWS DISSAPEARED DURING THOSE YEARS. A RELATIVE OF MINE LIVED IN FLORIDA DURING THOSE YEARS AND TOLD A STORY OF A FRIEND OF HIS COMING BACK INTO PORT WITH ONE SIDE OF HIS SAILBOAT BLACK. WHEN ASKED WHAT HAD HAPPENED HE SAID A SPEED BOAT HAD CAME UP ON HIM OFFSHORE AND THE MEN HAD GUNS ,SO WHEN THEY GOT CLOSE HE THREW TWO HANDGRENADES HE KEPT FOR SUCH EMERGENCYS IN THEIR BOAT AND DUCKED AND LEFT THEM SINKING AND BURNING. IF THE STORY WAS TRUE THEN AT LEAST ONE BOATLOAD OF PIRATES WENT MISSING IN THE 1970'S. |
Shall We
Explore the word 'Buccaneer' for awhile ? ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buccaneer |
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SOMETIMES GRENADES BOMBS WERE THROWN DURING BOARDINGS SOME WERE IRON OUTSIDE, SOME WERE WOOD OR GOURDS WITH SCRAPNEL INSIDE AND SOMETIMES HAD WIRE WRAPPED ON THE OUTSIDE. ANOTHER TYPE WAS HEAVY GLASS AND PRODUCED SOME VERY BAD SCRAPNEL ANOTHER WAS A TYPE OF CHEMICAL GRENADE REFERRED TO AS A STINK POT. THE STINK POT WAS USUALLY THROWN BELOW DECKS OR INTO CABINS TO FORCE OUT THE OCCUPANTS. THEY WERE OFTEN MADE WITH BURNING SULPHUR, RARELY FIREBOMBS WERE USED BY PIRATES AS THEY DID NOT WANT TO BURN UP A SHIP BUT TO LOOT IT. GLASS BOTTLES WITH TURPENTINE OR KEROSCENE WITH A RAG FOR A WICK WAS THE USUAL FORM. SOME OF THE ARABIC GRENADE BOMBS WERE CERAMIC ON THE OUTSIDE WITH SCRAPNEL INSIDE.
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Buccaneers
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This is ( again ) from a book i have on Piracy and Corso ( Privateers ):
... Contraband operations by the Dutch caused the evacuation of local French residents from the western Hispaniola, which contributed for the abandon of several domestic animals which, in wild conditions, reproduced abundantely. This has increased hunting activities. Wild bulls and pigs were then prepared the Caribean Indian way ( buccan ), which pleased passing by contrabandists, corsairs and pirates, both for its taste and also for its capacity to be stocked, due to its smoke treatment. This was the first reason for these guys being called buccaneers whom, gathering some wealth with the meat trade, became a threat to the people in the oriental part of the island. Quickly the hostilities started between both sides and, within time, most of these bucaneers quit their frequent wandering into the mountains, living in isolated straw huts, adopting piratic habits. As weaponry, they used at the belt three or four knives and a machete (cutlass ?) and a pouch with gunpowder and lead. Generaly they used a musket made in Dieppe, of large caliber and long barrel, shooting bullits of two ounces weight. They preferred gunpowder from Cheerburg, at the time known as the best quality, becoming named as bucaneer gunpowder. From what i understand, in a politic perspective they were not considered as "classic" pirates, but a disperse comunity of hunters and bandoleers ( bandits ), this not meaning they didn't worry the authorities. They lived as savages, regconizing nobody and accepting no leadership among therm, doing a thousand atrocities. |
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ISLAMIC CERAMIC BOMB/ GRENADES, 10 TO 12 CENTURY SOME WERE NO DOUBT JUST FIRE BOMBS NON EXPLOSIVE BUT WERE CHANGED WHEN GUNPOWDER BECAME AVAILABLE. i DON'T KNOW IF PIRATES EVER USED THEM BUT THEY MAY HAVE.
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Great picture of the Indian smoking process Fernando .
Pity the poor Grenadier Barry; I'll bet those things killed as many throwers as receivers . :eek: ;) :D |
From memory, Oxford defines 'machete' as a cutlass.
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IT IS SAID RIFLES OR MUSKETS WERE FIRST CHOICE WHEN CLOSING IN BY PIRATES AND PISTOLS SECOND THEN THE SWORD OR AX. DURING THE TAKING OF A SHIP ANY SANE PIRATE WOULD PREFER TO SHOOT DOWN HIS ENEMY FROM A DISTANCE OR PERHAPS STAB HIM IN THE BACK THAN TO FACE HIM IN A SWORD FIGHT AS NOT ONLY COULD THE OTHER FELLOW BE A BETTER SWORDSMAN OR GET LUCKY BUT WHILE ENGAGED YOUR BACK WAS EXPOSED.
RIFLES AND PISTOLS WERE USUALLY LOADED WITH MORE THAN ONE BALL ,USUALLY ONE THAT FIT THE BARREL TIGHT AND PERHAPS 2 OR MORE THAT WERE A BIT SMALLER. THIS LESSENED THE CHANCE OF A NEAR MISS CONSIDERABLY AND ALSO ADDED TO THE KNOCKDOWN POWER OF THE WEAPON IF ALL STRUCK. I WILL TRY AND ADD SOME PICS OF SOME OF THE GUNS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN USED AND SOME STRANGE ONES AS WELL. THE RIFLE IS A SEASERVICE BROWN BESS CIRC. 1745, MADE SHORTER FOR SERVICE ON BRITISH SHIPS, THE PISTOL IS A SPANISH MIQUELET CIRC. LATE 16 TO EARLY 17 CENTURY. THE LAST IS A DUCKFOOT PISTOL ,ALL BARRELS FIRE AT ONCE SOME CAPTIANS CARRIED THEM AS THEY WORKED WELL AGAINST A MUTINY. |
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A FEW MORE GUNS FROM THE PERIOD THAT MAY HAVE SEEN USE BY PIRATES. 1. A BORDINGAX PISTOL GERMAN 1600'S, 2. A 1660 ENGLISH SMOOTHBORE FOWLING GUN (SMOOTH BORE GUNS WERE FAVORED BY BUCCANEERS), 3. 1717 FRENCH 69 CAL., 4. FRENCH TRADE GUN 1700'S, FRENCH MATCHLOCK 1690, 5. SPANISH 70 CAL. 1756.
THE PICTURES DID NOT COME OUT IN THE ORDER LISTED IN SORRY. |
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A FEW EDGED WEAPONS, ABOUT TIME EH? :D
1. BOUCAN KNIVES OFTEN MADE FROM BROKEN WEAPONS WERE USED BY BUCANEERS. 2. CUTLASS, 1500'S TO 1700'S STYLE 3. CUTLASS OPEN BASKET 4.HANGER 5.SMALLSWORD 6.BOARDING AX CIRC. 1700'S SO FAR MY PIRATE POSTS HAVE MOSTLY COVERED WEAPONS FROM MORE RECENT TIMES AND OF EUROPEAN ORIGIN. THE FIRST MENTION OF PIRATES GOES BACK TO ANCIENT GREECE, ROME ECT AND NO DOUBT BEFORE WRITTEN LANGUAGE WAS INVENTED TO RECORD IT. AFTER ALL A GROUP ON ONE ISLAND OR CONTINENT MIGHT HAVE BEEN NOTED FOR PADDELING AND SAILING TO OTHER ISLANDS TO RAID AND PLUNDER SEASIDE VILLAGES BEFORE WRITING WAS AVAILABLE. THE VICTIMS OF SUCH ATTACKS WOULD HAVE HAD A TERM FOR THESE RAIDERS FROM THE SEA EVEN THEN. PIRATEING INCLUDED ATTACKS AT SEA AS WELL AS RAIDS ON LAND WHERE CONVIENT. SOME RAIDERS WERE CALLED BY OLDER NAMES BEFORE THE TERM PIRATE WAS COINED IF I REMEMBER IT CAME FROM A LATIN WORD USED DURING ROMAN TIMES. THESE PICTURES AND INFORMATION IS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG AS THERE HAVE BEEN SEA RAIDERS ALL OVER THE WORLD FOR A VERY LONG TIME. THERE WERE AFTER ALL OTHERS BESIDES (PIRATES OF THE CARRABEIAN) |
This big knife would fit in quite nicely. I haven't a clue where it comes from. Just picked it up because it was cheap :p :D
Total length is 41 cm http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...man/knife4.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...man/knife1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...man/knife3.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...man/knife2.jpg |
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After the drawing of a hanger, here is a real one.
Indeed a handy sword to use abord ships, with a short but wide and thick blade. |
Did somebody say...PIRATES!!
Hello folks,
I haven't posted in quite awhile (sorry, been busy!), but I stopped by, saw this thread and just couldn't leave it alone! I've been amassing a small collection of what could be called "pirate swords", boarding weapons and pieces that might have seen sea service for several years now (with what little funding I can manage). Being untechnological, I can't post pics, but I'd be happy to send some good ole-fashioned photos to one of the moderators to post if anyone is interested. Jim, we've discussed these weapons in the distant past (right before the 1st "Pirates of the Caribbean" movie, I recall) and I still have that Spanish Caribbean cutlass I sent you to look at. There's just something fascinating about pirates/privateers and the Age of Fighting Sail... :o Mark |
Avast Mark!!!! :) It has been a long time, and I do remember the great talks on the pirate theme! This thread has been a lof of fun, and actually I've been away from it a bit myself. Apparantly the guys have really added some pretty interesting entries here lately.
Very nice cutlass Fernando! Looks like a British hanger c.1750's with a pretty substantial blade mounted in it. Thanks for the historical material and perspective too. Vandoo, great stuff ! I'm beginning to wonder if you've traded in that war bonnet I always picture you wearing for a tricorn with jolly roger! Thank you for all the comprehensive material on pirate weapons, including the not often thought of grenades. I appreciate all the insight everybody has added on the terminology and etymology as well. Freddy, that scary 'Crocodile Dundee' lookin' piece seems likely to be a theatrical item made to resemble old Italian falchions from about 16th c. and even has had interpretations of the familiar Genoan 'sickle marks' added. Even if ya didn't use it, it might scare a guy to death :) Thanks very much everybody for keeping this thread going. I always hope these threads will do just as this has, to serve as a sort of comprehensive reference resource for future research and giving us all better understanding of the subject. I know this thread has gotten me to rewatch the pirate classics over again, and looks like we've even hooked the old salt Mark Eley!! :) Looking forward to those pictures Mark! All the best, Jim |
Thanks, Jim. Good to be back. I have also thoroughly enjoyed this thread, the general discussion and pics sent in. There are many books on pirates/privateers out there, but I find the best one that covers the entire pirate tradition from ancient times to present and in all cultures is "Pirates- Terror on the High Seas from the Caribbean to the South China Sea", JG Press. You mentioned pirate movies and I had a vague recollection of the original Disney classic Swiss Family Robinson and their encounter with the Indonesian pirates. Great old flick! Anyway, I'll send the pictures soon...
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in the past i've seen a number of UK fire axes passed off by vendors as 'boarding axes' yesterday there was an axe sold as a long handled fireaxe from a victorian fireboat. to me it looks more like a 19c UK boarding axe passed off as a fire axe. i bid on it justincase but was outbid. hope the buyer was looking for a boarding axe rather than the std. short handled fireaxe normally seen. this axe has a british broad arrow mark on the blade over an N, and a small brass numbered plate on the haft with a 'P' over a '48' (no 48 port?). thought i'd rescue a picture of it for the pirate thread, nothing like a good boarding axe to open up them locked boxes and doors while looting, and removing other obstacles, like victims.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...w/boarding.jpg this may or may not be one, but looks typical of the breed. |
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AUXILLARY WEAPONS/ TOOLS, GRAPPELING HOOKS AND BELAYPIN. 1915 MORO TROOPER WITH ALARM GONG, NOTE THE CANNONS IN THE PICTURE. 1910 CHINESE PIRATES IN HONG KONG ABOUT TO GET SHORTENED BY A HEAD.
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Those Cannon................!!!
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Known as LANTAKA cannon. A couple of pics of these at Fort Siloso, Singapore. Origin is Portuguese I believe and no doubt were used to either repel boaders or to clear the decks of opposition during boarding.
Regards Stuart |
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Malay Cannon of the 17th & 18th Century
Cannon such as these were being manufactured nearly one hundred years before the arrival of Europeans to this part of the world. It is believed that gun making was introduced to the region by Muslim traders from the Middle East. The cannon are smooth bore and muzzle loading. They were used as weapons of war and also signalled the start and end to fasts during the period of Ramadan. The firing of cannons was also used by royalty to announce a royal birth or wedding. http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9...canon01ui5.jpg http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1...canon02ut3.jpg Sources : http://www.fortsiloso.com/museum/malay.htm |
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