Fearn, Yes most commonly from the Mt Hagen area. Tim , have now had the opportunity to go through 2 extensive libraries on Oceanic and Aboriginal Artifacts and can find nothing like your club, Am wondering could it be European or African? Cheers Rod

I will try to get into town this April. I do not think it is anything other than Melanesian or Micronesian. Look at sago pounders and adze from these regions. Maybe we only need to wait a week or so, all depends on how much work I have to do.

I am on a mission to find all pictures of similar consruction. This is a tool and nowhere near as carefully made as the flint club.
http://www.tribalworldbooks.com.au/mlPage5.html

Explore here, great pictures. Plate 75, my club is of the same quality if not a little better than these.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3Den%26sa%3DN

So why not use flint stone. We know it was traded and would be as good as turtle bone.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3Den%26sa%3DN

Hi Tim,

Why not use flint stone? This is where the geology lesson comes in. Islands come in three basic flavors (so long as a geologist is not reading this :-)): 1) continental, 2) volcanic and oceanic, and 3) coral.

Basically, flint will only occur on continental islands. Micronesia is composed exclusively of volcanic high islands and coral atolls. On coral atolls, the stone is (you guessed it) coral. This is why atoll dwellers use things like Tridacna shell for tools and put shark teeth on their clubs. On volcanic islands, the only stones available are volcanic, things like basalt and obsidian.

Flint only occurs on continental rocks (ditto with chert). There are no continental islands in Micronesia, and in Polynesia, only New Zealand is continental (and Fiji, if you're going to count Fiji as a Melanesia/Polynesia intermediate). Melanesia contains islands of all three types, and thus it is the only possible source for a flint rock. Even then the rock would have had to come from some place on or near New Guinea, the larger Solomon Islands, or New Caledonia. It could also have come from Australia, of course.

This assumes, of course, that the club actually came from the islands.

Bottom line: identifying the rock is pretty important, because it will help define a source.

Hope this helps.

F

You are absolutely right. I was working on the methods of construction that appear woefully inadequate and primitive to us. I have not got the funds to do forensic research. How extensive was the trade in flint? I hope to get an answer at the Anthropological Research Centre at th BM.

I'll be interested in the answer. I know of local trade in stones, and it would be interesting if there were long distance trading as well.

Have fun!

F

I am not sure if this link will work. I will post an extract about how in some parts traditional trade patterns continued into the very early 1900s. It is interesting to read that there was some conflict with pearl shell workers that had been established on some island of the Torres Straits from 1860.
http://www.qm.qld.gov.au/organisatio...3_1_barham.pdf

Read page 53 of the last link. :eek: wrong page :o

Sorry i meant page54 :eek: :eek:

I have not been able to get to town but I have not forgotten this thread and will purse it further. I have been looking at the islands that make up Vanuatu as well PNG , New Britain, New Ireland. All of these places could be supplied with Cape York goods or certainly flint from NE AUS. The trouble is this is fairly new ground. Go to an posh auction house punkahwallah and they only know what they last sold that looked similar where ever it was from. Probably confidently labeled PNG. :shrug:

OCEANIC CLUBS TEND TO BE WOOD MOST OF THE TIME BUT THERE ARE SOME STONE HEADED EXAMPLES. THE ONLY SOURCE OF OBSIDIAN WHICH I HAVE SEEN WAS FOUND IN THE ADMIRALTY ISLANDS I FORGET WHICH ISLAND BUT IT WAS SOUGHT AFTER THRUOUT THE REGION. MOST STONE CLUB HEADS I HAVE SEEN HAVE BEEN VOLCANIC STONE OR METAMORPHIC/SEDIMENTARY , I HAVE SEEN SOME QUARTZITE USED IN AUSTRALIA AS WELL ,USUALLY FOR KNIVES AND ADZ HEADS. THE FAVORED VOLCANIC STONE IS BASALT WHICH IS HEAVIER THAN THE LAVA THAT HAS BEEN EXPOSED TO THE AIR AND FLUFFED UP WITH BUBBLES. SERPENTINE IS ALSO USED WHICH IS FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND IS METAMORPHIC AND CAN EVENTUALLY TURN INTO JADE WHICH IS ALSO SOUGHT AFTER. THE MOUNT HAGEN CEREMONIAL AXES SEEM TO HAVE HEADS MADE OF SOME FORM OF SHALE OR HARD SOAPSTONE, SOME OF WHICH IS QUITE BEAUTIFUL BUT CHIPS EASILY OT THE EDGE. GRANITE IS ALSO USED WHERE IT CAN BE FOUND BUT I HAVEN'T PERSONALLY SEEN A GRANITE CLUB ON AN OCEANIC WEAPON.
THE AMERICAS HAVE A AMPLE SUPPLY OF FLINT SO IT IS A COMMON MATERIAL USED FOR POINTS AND KNIVES BUT OTHER HEAVIER STONES WERE USUALLY USED FOR WAR CLUBS. EUROPE AND EGYPT HAVE LOTS OF FLINT BUT THAT IS AS FAR AS MY KNOWLEGE GOES AS TO WHERE FLINT IS USED.

I WILL TRY AND PUT IN A FEW PICTURES FOR GRINS. :) I AM SURPRIZED ALL 4 CAME THRU. #1 DOUBLE HEADED OBSIDIAN SPEAR ADMIRALTY IS.
#2 SOLOMON ISLANDS, RENNEL IS. STONE HEADED CLUB, BASALT
#3 AZMAT CLUB VOLCANIC STONE
#4 OLD PAPUA STONE CLUB HEAD, VOLCANIC STONE.

I AM FEELING LUCKY I WILL TRY A FEW MORE :D
#1 PNG. VOLCANIC STONE AX SHOWN MOUNTED
#2 OLD KUKU WOODEN CLUB SIMILUAR TO SOME OF THE STONE FORMS FROM NEW GUINEA
#3 PNG STONE ADZ SOFT STONE HEAD PROBABLY CEREMONIAL OR RECENT AND NOT FOR USE.
#4 RECENT CEREMONIAL AX PNG. PRETTY GREEN STONE AX BLADE LOOKS LIKE JADE BUT CAN BE SCRATCHED WITH A KNIFE. SOAPSTONE?

I DON'T HAVE ANY PICTURES OF THE AUSTRALIAN QUARTZITE MATERIAL SO WILL HAVE TO LOOK FARTHER. THIS IS NOT MUCH HELP IDENTIFING THE FLINT NODULE BUT PERHAPS IT POINTS THE WAY FROM OCEANIC TO A CONTINENTAL ORIGIN UNLESS THERE IS FLINT USED IN AUSTRALIA OR NEW GUINEA OR NEW ZEALAND WHICH I HAVE NOT PERSONALLY SEEN. I SUPPOSE YOU COULD CONTACT THE ARTEFACT OR ROCK HUNTING CLUBS IN THOSE COUNTRYS TO FIND OUT FOR SURE. GOOD LUCK

Interesting stuff.

Page 1 "the quarried flint nodules from the cave were taken elsewhere and made into tools"

We also know from Haddons observations that flint was indeed a trade item.
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/ass...aborigines.pdf

This one is good too, with pics. :cool:
http://nma.gov.au/shared/libraries/a...stories_bw.pdf

Short of the okay from the British Museum official wallah, in spite of much indisputable supportive evidence there seems to be a severe case of "not in the book syndrome" as if a complete catalogue is ever possible in the first place, we know all forms there in the book stupid. :rolleyes:

I finally managed to get into town today. Before I go any further on the club I will just tell you that I also visited the Wallace collection. This was rather humbling, but take heart we on this forum from what I have seen are all in possession of at least one piece worthy of the most prestigious collection. keep a look out on their web site as the oriental arms are to be published some time October onwards.

Okay the visit to the Anthropological centre at the BM was a little disappointing. I could find stacks of related information more than I could copy but nothing exactly the same. Also there is no expert on call as there used to be when a worked at my "Alter Mater" the museum of mankind. beside I did not take the object with me. I could pursue it even further by visiting the store which would still be free but I really do not have the time to commit.
Anyway lets look at what i could find. There are some splendid old German books from the very early 1900s in the centre with fantastic pictures. This picture is interesting as it has, that old chestnut the saw fish bill. Which is handy :D .
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...oneclub001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...oneclub003.jpg

There were references to a great many cult/magic totem stone and bird head objects, as i mention earlier the club in question could be a staff or ceremonial. I was able to bet a good photo copy of this shell axe which is much less fine than the club. What is note worthy is the use of barked wood and wood stripped of bark as in my piece.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...oneclub002.jpg

Finally I thought this is quite an interesting picture. Judging by the size of this chaps tool I would say he was nearly as big as me :cool:.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4.../Stoneclub.jpg

more stuff
 

Time flies.http://www.papua-insects.nl/history/...expedition.htm

Just for fun
 

I just had to add this pic of the Cerne Abbas giant. Well I have to blow my own trumpet.

bubbling up again
 

This establishes the use of chert/flint and is a continuation of form although different in construction. As we know flint was exported so a variation in construction should be expected. The same form can also be seen on a New Caledoean club if you scroll through Oceania. The same bird head club,pick,war hammer? is widespread, seen in many Islands in these parts of the South Western Pacific.

http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...a/1900.55.178/

More reference to the use of flint. Solomons

http://www.jstor.org/pss/1782830

I have just recevieved a book "The Traditional Pottery of Papua New Guinea"

Okay the book is not about weapons however it does cast a very bright light on trading.

We accept the trade of European steel weapons and lets call it the Red Sea trade of steel weapons to areas without the skill to produce quite the same weapon or if not so much the skill but quantity.

The trading could help explain why one cannot point to another club exactly the same. As mentioned before it may seem strange to us why a nodule of flint might be so valuable. This series of picture shows the scale of trading. They also show how flint would be traded to islands that naturally have no flint. As I am a bit dumb and slow I will do this by a series of replies to this post.

This picture shows pots ready to be traded by the Muto people, an annual trading festival and expidition known as "Hiri" Also a picture of the trading canoe. The pictures are turn of the 19/20th century.
These expeditions included the Torres Straits Islands, we know from previous post of the trade of flint from Australia from Cape York to the Torres Straits possibly other islands. I am sure they could put a few stone in this trading canoe even if it was just balast.

These pictures show what lengths some people have to go to to obtain substances we just do not think about. A there and back trip from Nabwageta Island to Fergusson Island of say 40KM must put some value on the clay as raw material. Could put a few stones in the bottom of the canoe?

Taking the goodies home to the far flung Islands. Could put a few stones in the canoe here too.

I guess. In North America, they were trading copper from the great lakes for shell from the gulf. Or the anasazi were getting macaw feathers and chocolate from Mexico.

I'd guess that trade's an old, old human phenomenon. That said, it's still fun to see those pictures.

F

Fearn,
Researching "Hiri trade" I have found stuff that suggests, not only according the the book on pottery is it an annual festival as a prelude to a trading enterprise. It seems there may be such a thing as the Hiri curculation rather like the the trade winds of the Atlantic sea trade.

A true 'Waterworld' , Tim . :)
But ....


Without Dennis Hopper .. :D

Thanks
 

After a great deal of rambling and learning we have a conculsion to this club. I would like to thank you all for many hours of frustration and great entertainment.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9591

There is the possibility that it may even be Ona Patagonia which would make it a very rare item indeed if it is not already. :)

Stupidly, I posted this comment on this thread
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9591 when it should be on this one :o

Hi Tim,
the illustration of the 'stone headed' club shows that it is mounted to the side of the shaft......yours is mounted on top. So I am not so certain that we can ID yours from the drawing.

Regards David

Up Date.
 

I have received a reply from the British Museum Collection Enquiries. This I have to say was rather disappointing. To be fair the curators were only working from not the best photographs. They are also not the personnel that have daily access to the less distinctive items in the miles of boxes in the Museum store building, which is four stories high. In the very early 1980s I worked as a registrar in the African department {pre computer, pen and ink drawing of items in the collection} I could have told you it was not African. The letter is here for you all to read. It is some what sitting on the fence I feel. I am most reluctant to leave the item with them, also to expect every box of all geographic areas to be opened to match materials is a little unreasonable. So I have decided to tackle the problem another way.

Today I kept an appointment with a Dr Peter Gasson working in the Jodrell laboratory at the Royal Botanic Gardens Kew. Three samples of wood were taken from the haft of the club with the minimum of damage. There and then from the transverse sample I was shown through the microscope that although light to handle it is a hard wood. The work will be on going so I expect a final analysis in about a months time. This procedure may not answer all the questions on the club. If only a genus is identified then I could still be no further on in the hunt for an origin however I am feeling confident that we are not look at something like Oak. On the other hand it could well be an unknown species, all in the air really. I am wondering if it is some kind of palm wood. I really do hope I get somewhere? keeping my fingers crossed as this is going to cost 3/5th of what I paid for the club. What ever the result good or bad I will keep you all informed.

I wouldn't be surprised if this club originated from Australia...

Here's a link showing a modern aboriginal elder making a stone hatchet.

http://earthsci.org/aboriginal/index.html#restoreaxe

http://earthsci.org/aboriginal/axehe...ges/oldaxe.jpg

The technique of binding is very similar. With regards to the 'telegraph' wire, this type of insulated wire is similar to that used in old houses over here, and the aboriginal people are famous for their ingenuity in combining new materials with ancient technological methods (i.e. flint-knapping glass of broken beer bottles to make spear heads in remote areas up to the 1960's and later).

I can't say for sure it's an 100% Australian Aboriginal artefact, but it would not look out of place in the Australian Aboriginal material culture of the early 20th century.

Comming in rather late here.
Looks very neolithic to me. A poor flint or /often refered to as chert (sometimes not entirely accurately).
I find the simple shaping also reminds me of neolithic tools.
Any chance its a victorian 'authentic' rehafting of a British Neolithic club?
I've seen EBA stuff remounted in the 19thC.

If it is Australian or even Australasian the the analysis should have no problem in finding the answer. It is what I have thought right from the start. The problem lies in the cell structure of a genus that is common to vast areas of the world like Oak. I bet the wood is from the southern hemisphere anyway.

Good luck, Tim.

I suspect you'll get a good answer on the wood ID if it's tropical. Even oak wood is variable enough that they can get it to at least subgenus, if not species. The only challenge is whether they have that species in their type collection or not.

On the other hand, it's good to know that we came up with the same answer as the collections managers of the British Museum (i.e. what the heck is it?). Kudos to us.

Best,

F

Kew results, good in parts.
 

Email to me, 30 December 2009

Dear Mr Simmons

I have now microscopically examined the wood fragments we took from your club handle on 30 October. The closest anatomical match I can find is with the wood of Ligustrum sp., Privet. There are about 40 species in this genus, 1 in Europe, 1 in North Africa but most in East and Southeast Asia. This does seem to throw some doubt on the club being from southern South America, but depending on its age there is always the possibility that the wood was imported.


Yours sincerely

Peter Gasson


Dr Peter Gasson
Jodrell Laboratory
Royal Botanic Gardens
Kew
Richmond
Surrey
TW9 3DS

So no actual species identified but with further research on the net, species of the genus Ligustrum are found throughout Malaysia to Australia. I do not have the funds to get the results photographed and pursue this course of enquiry further worldwide. However I do feel that the results give some backing to my original opinions and findings on the object. I do not know how early non-native Privet were introduced to Australia but can say that {ref the wire on the handle} telecommunication started from the late 1850s.

Privet. Hmmmm. Interesting finding. I don't see a lowland tropical Ligustrum species on the list yet, so I'm not buying Torres Strait Islands. Without testing the bark binding (hey, why not disassemble it completely and test the rock head too? :D:D:D) I think the best guess is that the handle came out of someone's hedge or weed patch.

Great that you're doing this research, Tim. At least, now we know where to go when we have these types of questions next time.

Best,

F

What does the Australian Privet Hawk Moth grub eat?

Ummmmmm, the privet hawk moth (Psilogramma menephron) caterpillars eat members of the families Bignoniaceae and Oleaceae, including "olive trees (Olea europaea, OLEACEAE), but is perhaps most often found in suburbia on privet (Ligustrum vulgare, OLEACEAE ), jasmine (Jasminum officinale, OLEACEAE ), and Australian native olive (Olea paniculata, OLEACEAE)" (ref). You were perhaps expecting that because it is found in the tropical Pacific, therefore privet is found there too? :shrug:

Best,

F