Richard,

The blade is Indian, not European, and what you write about the fullers is really interesting, as this means that the 'doodlings' were planed before the blade was made, or the fullers would, no doubt, have been of the same length. If you plan a decoration like that, before or when the blade is being made, this decoration must have been important to the owner.

Yes, I will let you know, when I know more about the floral decoration.

Jens

Here are some pictures of the broken scabbard. Any suggestions regarding mending this, making new wood and a top fitting to match?
Any other suggestions?

Jens, would this little flower be OK?

Hmm, well Richard, the scabbard seems a bit short for the tulwar, and I won't suggest that it was intended – like a faster draw, or something like that. I suggest that you find someone who can make a nice new scabbard. There are some in the US who does these things nicely, and I think there are one or two at least in Canada as well, but make sure that the red cloth under the mounts is kept as it is. Any problems finding someone try to yell on the forum, if it does not help let me know.

Yes I think a flower like that will do nicely – did you make it yourself?

Outstanding job, Richard. You seem to be pretty unstoppable!!
You can only admire/pity/envy someone who has no concept of how hard something is to do, and so just bowls in head first :)
This is the style of flower Jens mentioned, on a worn hilt. Yours is pretty damn close!

Hi B.I,
Thanks for showing the flower. Yes the flower chosen is close and will look nice on the hilt:).

Jens,
NO no, the scabbard's the right lenth,...... On one side anyway!!........It's just that the 'outside' has been broken off level with the centre fitting.
If you think it needs new wood, I could make it, and fix it up with the old fittings, plus it needs an upper fitting making.
Didn't know wether I should just add new wood to the broken parts.

The red under the fittings is something like very thin copper sheet, The inside looks a copper colour, yet the outside seen through the holes in fittings, is a bright red. Not sure what it is.....Doesn't appear painted on.

Yes, I made the little flowers, I had a bit of silver sheet.

BI,
thank you for posting pictures of the wee flower, might alter mine a bit to look more like this one!

Does anyone have a photo of an upper fitting, to show me where it sits, etc?
Looks to me that it would have to be below the langets?

Thank you again!
R.

Hi Richard,
Attached is a top scabbard mount. I dont suppose its worth saying it would be very hard to make?

Greg, Jeff, or anyone else, can you give me an estimated of the amount of steel removed from Richard's blade?

If blades were sharpened, or cleaned through the time, as they must have been, why does some collectors pay so much attention to the POB (point of ballance)?

It seems to me, that the POB of any sword, can have changed quite a lot during the life of the sword, so why the big interest, not to say anything about the change of a hilt. Any comments would be apreasiated.

Not difficult to make just expensive :( . In Europe and America should I say.

What are you reffering to Tim?

I could make one but the cost would be pretty much the same as a good sword.

What do you mean Tim?

sorry Jens, I am talking about a scabbard top replacement and trying to match the old metalwork.

Brian,
Thanks for the picture!
Yes, to me it looks a bit of a challenge!..........but there goes that word again,...Challenge!
Challenges have to be met,...Don'cha know?

The scabbard I have has a ring on the middle fitting, so suppose it would also have one on the upper?

Jens,
I believe Tim is referring to the cost of making the upper fitting for the scabbard.

Re. how much metal removed, don't know. More sweat than metal i think!

Tim,
I see what you mean, but in my book I equate difficult and expensive together!.......as in, if it's easy to make, any daft --- can make one, so it should be cheap! Whereas if it's a bit harder to make, then Hmmm,.......it's gonn'a cost you! :) :)

Sorry for answering Jen's question to you Tim, Your post came up while I was answering mine!

I have just caught up on this very interesting thread, and Richard, I can only say you have done an unbelievably remarkable job at saving this well worn and terribly maimed warrior. How lucky this sword was that you were the one who took it in!! :)
In looking at the later entries where you have included the scabbard, which you indicate is apparantly original to the sword, I wanted to include some important information. This scabbard form, with the long fluted chape piece in iron, as well as pierced iron mounts, is of the form associated with Afghan swords. I have seen examples of Afghan shashka with scabbards of this form and it seems that paluoars often have these type scabbards as well.

It is known of course that weapons such as the tulwar of course diffused from the Northwest Frontier into Afghan regions, and this may be one which followed that course. Many of the weapons in Afghan regions, just as in the Mughal sphere, reflected profound Persian influence. It is interesting to note that the tulwar hilt on this example has unusual flueret style quillon terminals that correspond somewhat to the hilt form shown in Pant ("Indian Arms & Armour" p.115) and which the author has curiously labeled the 'purbi' or 'purbiya' hilt (=Eastern, as he claims these derive from Eastern India).
These sharply stylized fleuret type terminals seem distinctly Mughal as they are seen as well on some Mysori hilts, and it would be extremely difficult to assign them to a specific region, or to designate the hilt form with a term such as applied in Pant. It does seem key that the tulwar itself seems to carry Mughal associated form and appears to have been scabbarded by most probably armourers in Afghan regions.

A classic example of a well worthy weapon with some apparantly fascinating history that was all but destined for the scrap heap due to the thoughtless vandalization of some misguided 'person' .....and wonderfully saved by the perseverence of an empassioned collector!! Well done Richard!!!! :)

Some very good points brought up by Jens as well on these extremely worked on blades, often reprofiled and excessively sharpened, and in this case where a good portion of the blade at the tip appears to be missing....that this may indeed affect the POB of the blade. Regardless of that, the appearance of the blade as it stands now is excellent!

All very best regards,
Jim

Jim,
Thank you for the lengthy and detailed reply, and for all the information re. this sword and scabbard!
Thank you again!!

So it appears this sword has a Moghul style hilt, and was scabbarded in the Afghan region?, How fascinating!
I suppose it could have gone through a scabbard or two in its working life, each one possibly distinct according to where circumstance placed it at the time.
Re. the blade tip, It could have lost about an inch, but not much more, unless the present scabbard was made after it had lost the tip.

Interesting thing about the scabbard, it appears to have been made for a left-handed person, as the middle fitting had the longer decorative side on the 'wrong' side. The wood also shows that this is the way it has always been, as it has a pale area where the decoration sat.
Also, the material covering the scabbard is overlapped and glued down what would normally be the 'out' side.

Would it be possible to hazard a guess as to the age of this sword?

Would be most indebted if you could!!

Thanks again for all your help,
Richard.

Richard,

You are very observant to notice that the owner seems to have been left handed, very good observation, as I am sure several missed it – like I did. The flower on the square looks very nice.

Jim's comments on the scabbard mounts are good, and give an indication of, from where the sword origins. I once had an Afghan pulouar and the scabbard mounts were like the ones on you scabbard, but they were not pierced.

Jens

i think the steel removed from this blade was minimal... it was in good shape before sanding.. ... now a blade with deep pitts needing a total regrind..... may loose much more metal and may shift the balance point... ..

as for the importance of the balance point..... i'm not a swordsman... so take this with a grain of salt... i find a blade with a balance point closer to the hand is quicker and more gives good control.... this is why a decent fighting knife will have a nice distal taper.. it'll have a quick tip

G

Jens,
I'll keep you up to date when I get to making the wood scabbard and top fitting, but it may take me a while to get at it!.....lots on my plate already.

Greg,
I agree that lightening the blade a bit moves POB back a bit and makes it faster, Only down-side could be it might not cut as strong. (less weight behind the stroke)........But then again, if it can be swung faster, this maybe compensates?

I just had a look in Damascening on Steel and Iron, as Practised in India, London 1892, by T. H. Hendley. In the book he shows a flower on top of the disc, looking very much like the one on your tulwar. He writes that the hilt is from Punjab, NW India at the time, and the scabbard mounts are NW Indian/Afghan – so it all seems to fit together.

Excellent Jens!!!:)
It really is amazing when all the pieces fit! Looks like this old warrior might have seen service in the Khyber. Now theres a piece of history, and very plausibly connected to the colorful times in those regions associated with the British Raj.
All the best,
Jim

Jens,
Thank you for the information!
It all seems to fit together now, and seems very logical.
Very interesting Re. the flower on the disc, wonderful to know, Thank you again!!

Re. the book on damascening you mention, I found a copy straight away, In Germany, but didn't buy it..........Seller wanted $5000 and odd dollars for it!

Jim,
Isn't it exciting when things all come together, and we at last can know with a fair degree of certainty where a piece came from?
.........and this one appears to come from an area with quite a bit of history!
Very fascinating!
Am glad now I didn't just dump it in disgust when I first saw it!
Will be happy when it can sit in its own restored scabbard. I think they both deserve a bit of peace.