A fantastic picture. I see that most of the blade is not magnetized at all, but there 4-7 macrodomains, which are magnetized. I would say that there definitely has to be some kind of a structural nonuniformety at these points. What surprises me that these domains are quite big, moreover rather than forming let's say a vortex like structure they are actually very well separated.

For now I would say that there are 4 areas that either cooled much slower than the rest of the blade, or somehow else vastly differ from the rest of the blade.

I'm not surprised to see N/S/N configuration: the interaction in between of these areas is obviously dipole-based, and knowing the fact that is magnetized perpendicular to the line that connects these (I don't really want to confuse people by saing "domains") areas, the most benefitial configuration would indeed be the one with the opposite magnetizations.

I will try to get some other opinions on this image - great stuff, thank you.

Thank you very much for the work Gene, it paid off, the pictures are fantastic. Please show us a picture of the blade and a close up of the blade. Thank you for making the experiment.

Rivkin, you obvious know a lot more about this than most of us, which is very good. The trend started as an amateur discussion, but has moved on far beyond that.
You write: ‘For now I would say that there are 4 areas that either cooled much slower than the rest of the blade, or somehow else vastly differ from the rest of the blade.’
What do you mean by writing ‘cooled much slower’ – how much slower would it need to be to give this effect?
When you write ‘or somehow else vastly differ from the rest of the blade’ what do you mean by this – differ in what way?
Could the blade have been made in this way by polishing it with a lodestone?

Picture of Mysore dagger
 

JENS
This is a picture of the dagger.
RIVKIN Thanks for your comments on the picture.
I would like to tell all that would try and duplicate this, is this. Be ready for a lot of frustration! as I tried this well over a 50 times over a two weeks time period taking hours and hours of time. I gleefully :) jumped into this project and just dumped the Iron Powder over the covered blade, sorry it did not work at all for me. :mad: To make a long story Short, I had to make a box (patten applied for! :rolleyes: )that would hold the dagger level and keep all wind currents away from the Iron powder (sneezing will do "wonders" to the effect, don't ask :( ) I had to just about place each Iron particle by hand on the paper, as the Iron powder would not form a pattern if to much was used in one place and it had to be even over all the blade. I also think that by leaving it undisturbed, with the Iron powder in place, for two days did allow the Iron powder to take a "set", that's my thinking anyway. It would be nice also if your Iron powder was not rusty as mine was, it sure is messy, and will cause you to sneeze (I said do not ask!). The Zinc coated Iron filings just did not work well for me as it was just to course however it did not cause a mess or make me sneeze. :)
Gene

Gene, could you not have polished the iron powder before you started the experiment? It would have made it a bit less messy :p . If yje iron powder is very fine, could you not have used a pepperboxto distribute the powder?
From which part of the blade is the experiment?
Thank you for taking your time :rolleyes: .
Jens

Many blades become magnetized by the stroking of the grinding and sharpening processes; Many of my everyday knives and chisels display this affect, but the pole changing seems weird, and though I've never tested, the magnetization of knives from sharpening seems to be only along the edge and/or tip.
Hot working magnetic steel will demagnetize it, but not all of us knew that. Allow me to propose that the original costumers didn't know it either; perhaps this was a gimmick to "demonstrate" a blade being from a famous magnetic ore deposite (or of course, to suggest other magical/spiritual powers; look how modern paranormalists use their thermometers, manetometers, electrometers, etc.).

T back
 

JENS
If you look close at the larger of the two pictures (the one I used Iron powder on) on the left side you can just make out the hilt of the dagger so the orientation, is sharp side of the blade is down and T back side is up and closest to the paper and Iron powder. JENS where were you when I need you? Clean/polish the rusty powder indeed what should I have used Simichrome, or WD-40? :rolleyes:

I also must tell you all that I made a big mistake in doing all this :( . For when I moved the dagger, from taking the last picture, it fell out of the box I used to shield it, the dagger fell about five feet and hit on my concrete floor, hitting the heavy hilted end with enough force to smash one of the gemstones in the hilt end, the stone was a Peridot. I will have it replaced next week (I hope) but I am now afraid to even check to see if the pole reversing was effected in anyway, as some of the forum folks here have stated that blows will effect the magnetic properties of steel, but will do so just as soon as I get over all this. I'll keep you posted.
Gene

Gene, why do you ask? When you were supposed to polish the iron powder, I was out walking the dogs - of course :D .
I am sorry to hear about the dagger, and hope that nothing has happend to it. Should something have happen, try to ask Ann, I am sure that she will be able to help.

Jens

Could the material content on the metal influence more than rather ,,induced magnetism,, ?

Very cool thread, guys.
It got me to dig out my old Lensatic liquid filled and test some blades. Of all my collection, the one that showed the most interesting affect was an Omani Jambiya with an old blade. It pulled all the way south at the base and then swung all the way north at the tip. Most of my swords did very little in comparison. The surprise was an old and well-used Tibetan Khampa work knife that swings the needle completely north.

-d

Change in the magnetic field
 

Jens
I have good news and bad news on my dagger I call Mysore ( I think that is a name that depicted my feelings when I dropped the dagger, My Sore!, I wish no disrespect to the good folks in Mysore India as my southern humor is at play here :) )
I have replaced the Period stone in the handle and it really looks good, that is the good news.
The bad news is that the magnetic field has changed after the drop. While the same N,S,N,S, pattern with my compass is still the same, the overall attraction is a lot less now, I will try to set up a visual display of the effect tomorrow using the Iron powder (no Jens I did not polish the rust off the Iron powder ;) and take some pictures for posting here.
I have something else to confuse, (at least it is confussing to me, that for sure), you good forum folks about all of this, is that the compass needle does not change directions the same way as I move the compass over the blade, one time the needle goes counterclockwise and then it goes clockwise as I move the compass over the blade as it reverses direction. I would think it would always move in the same direction, :confused: I will post more information, tomorrow to make this a little more understanable.
Anyway things are getting back to normal with the repair done.
But the mystery of the Mysore Dagger goes on!
Gene

















b

That's too bad about your dagger, Mare!

About that quadruple dipole configuration...my mom the electrical engineer (no joke!) had a suggestion:

She suggested that there's a real easy way to smuggle valuable knives. All you do is take a couple of magnets (two horseshoes or four bars) and use them to attach the knife to the underside of a car or truck. The border guard doesn't notice, customs aren't paid....or whatever.

I'm NOT claiming that your knife was purchased illegally! Far from it! Unless you have a complete provenance on it, though, it might be...difficult to figure out where and how it has travelled over the course of its existence.

Anyway, she was of the opinion that the magnetic field you demonstrated so nicely probably resulted by accident, from the knife being exposed to magnets for an extended period of time. The smuggling idea counts here--the magnets were essential, but the pattern is accidental. The alternative would be that someone deliberately magnetized it in that pattern, for reasons unknown.

Since you've dropped it once, I think that running a real test of this involving magnets and your own car would probably count as a Bad Idea. However, it's something to think about, and it'd make a nice party story, at least.

Cheers,

Fearn

Gene, it is very unfortunate that you dropped the pesh-kabz, but at the same time it is very fortunate that it did not piece your foot. Always look at the bright sides of life.
Do you have the impression that the hilt of your pesh-kabz is hollow?
The one shown below has a hollow grip, and the blade is magnetic, but only one time N-S.

Fearn, how much does your mother charge to take daggers and swords into another country, will the charge be pr border, and will there be a discount, if there are more than one border which have to be crossed?
I think you mothers suggestion sounds like a possibility we have to take into consideration.
How strong a magnet is a lodestone, and could the magnetism on Gene’s dagger have been obtained by polishing the blade with a lodestone?
Will an electric wire held along the blade improve the magnetism, so that the iron powder will be easier to work with?

And she's such a sweet and innocent-looking lady, too. It's too bad that she doesn't live near any borders that we'd care about.:rolleyes:

Personally, I'd secure the blade inside a body panel, simply to keep it clean. :cool:

Smuggling aside, I'd suggest that magnets would be a decent display (or whatever) mount for smaller blades, especially guardless ones. Obviously, it wouldn't work on something with a disk guard, like a katana or a dao, but for a slim-line blade, like this pesh-kabz or a dha, it might be a nice way to display it.

Mostly I'd suggest this as an explanation for cases where there are multiple dipoles across the blade. Others here have made some good suggestions about why a knife would have a single dipole, etc.

Fearn

New pictures of the magnetic field
 

JENS
Two pictures of the change in magnetic field on the Mysore dagger.
As you can tell the Iron powder is not showing the magnetic field as well as the first time we tested it. I had to use the side of the blade instead of the "T" back as I did in the first "test", to even get this amount to show.
The N, S, N, S change in the compass is still the same, and I cannot tell any change in that at all.
What is puzzling to me is that the needle on the compass does not turn in the same direction. It will go counterclockwise at first then go clockwise the next two times when going to the new poll positions.
The hilt is also solid and that is why it did not go point down and stab me in the leg :)
You are getting on to me for causing you to have sleepless nights, you should talk, with all the hard questions/information that you post, I have to stay up most of the my nights just to try and stay up with you :)

FEARN
Your mother's theory on how a blade can get magnetize is one that I would have never thought of. She has talents that are commendable. As the old saying (at least in the South it does) goes, Acorns do not fall to far from the tree.
So you must have the same inclinations/skills ;)
Gene

Hi Mare,

Sneaky is as sneaky does, sahr.... (Forrest Gump reference, in case you didn't catch it) :)

(Un)fortunately, everyone in my family is pretty honest--great practical jokers, but honest otherwise.

One suggestion about the compass needle flipping back and forth is that I suspect it's taking the minimum energy path for flipping. I've seen the same kind of thing playing with a compass and magnets, and I'm pretty sure that the needle will flip back and forth in the minimum arc necessary to follow the magnetic field. There's no particular reason (that I can think of anyway) that the compass will always spin in the same pattern every time.

Personally, I'm enjoying the patterns you're producing. If you really want to get involved, you could get one of those magnetic knife racks and a couple of cheap kitchen knives, and see if you can reproduce the banding pattern.

Fearn

Good Idea!
 

FEARN
I will get one of those knife holders today and give it a try, great idea.
However you are just confirming my deep convictions of your upbringings :)
I do agree, now that you have explained it to me, on the reason why the needle swings the way is does, most things do go by the path of least resistance.
I am also going to try and find four (cheep) compasses and place them on the blade and take a picture of the compasses all being in a different direction at the same time, just to show to the nay sayers (if there be any out there) ;) that this is happening the way I am explaining it.
Gene

Gene, I can see what you mean – did you use the same amount of iron powder, and are the iron pieces of equal size? I guess that you did, and that they are, but it does not hurt to ask, or I may look forward to another sleepless night :o .
Fearn's suggestion sounds like a good idea to try, I am looking forward to hear how the experiment runs.
You were very fast in getting the stone replaced - do you have a mine of your own?

Jens

Peridot mine!
 

JENS
I did use the same Iron powder as well as trying to do it the very same way. I could not use as much of the Iron powder as the magnetic field was so weak that if I use more it overwhelmed the effect and I could not take a picture of it. I am getting better at this as it only took me six times this time. :) To answer the question about the Peridot replacement on the dagger is that I went to a store in Franklyn NC called Ruby City and they has a pear/seed shaped stone of the exact size needed for the replacement. I did not want to leave the dagger with them so I bought the stone at the outrageous price of $5.00! and did the replacement my self. I did get "how to" advice from the owner as to how to do it. All in all not a bad days piece of work don't you think? For your information, ( I know you did not ask but I will tell you anyway) that Franklyn, NC is famous for it's Ruby mining as well as Sapphires and Garnets and other gems. You have to watch out as there are a lot of "sea sick" Rubies for the unawares for sale. What is "Sea Sick" Rubies you ask? Rubies from overseas that are of very poor quality and the name comes from the sea voyage over here, are then "salted" in the mines for the "tourist" to find.
FEARN
I took your advice/suggestion and did acquire a magnetic knife holder to test the effect on a cheep carbon knife. I also got four compasses to show the effect on the pol changes on the dagger. Will set this all up tomorrow and take pictures for you and others of the forum.
I ask to all that read this thread that JENS started, am I doing to much on all this? I think it is very interesting, as well as fun ( as long as you do not sneeze when doing the Iron powder test!) but that is just my opinion. Anyway I am winding down on this and should be over the testing tomorrow unless JENS ask more hard questions :)

RADU
You asked a question earlier on this thread, that never got an answer.
Reason I did not answer is that I did not understand the question, if you are still reading this thread ask again and I'll have one my assistants, :) JENS or FEARN answer you. :D
Gene

Gene, thank you for answering my questions – also the questions not asked. There is however one question which I did not ask, and which you did not answer. The iron powder you use, how fine is it, is it like table salt, or not quite as fine? From your pictures I think it must be rather fine, but I am not sure.
To my opinion you should go on with the experiment, as I find it interesting and have learned quite a lot from the different answers. Another reason is, that I can’t remember to have seen an experiment like this one on this forum before, although this is/should be part of the interest when collecting swords and daggers.
Jens

Hello all!
Now that I have replaced my painfully slow old computer I can start to join in. At the risk of being slightly off the track, here are some thoughts/comments etc on magnetism of crucible Damascus steel blades, for what it is worth.... It would not matter if magnetite was part of the smelt or crucible steel refining process. During the actual production of the crucible steel, since it is liquid and an homogenous steel, the iron particles in the ingot would have a definite alignment to magnetic north (back to Archaeomagnetism). If anyone is really interested in that I could probably give some references as I was teaching it a few weeks ago.
I have heard from those producing crucible Damascus steel today, that at least one blacksmith repeatedly tests the bade during forging, to know when the pattern is good. I will try to find that e-mail, in a list of 500, so it may take a while. Plus, polishing with a loadstone may effect the magnetic properties.
As soon as I get a chance (not till the summer) I will research this topic further, looking for historical references and I will suggest some scientific explinations.
I thought I have covered all aspects of crucible Damascus steel, but magnetivity and sound are the two new brain teasers!
:rolleyes:
Ann
http://moltenmuse.home.att.net
http://www.AASTI.us

Hello Ann, and welcome to the forum.
Do you know, are any of the ingots from the different parts of India magnetic?
In the book ‘The Mansabdari System and the Mughul Army’ the author, Abdul Aziz place the lodestone/Magnetite amongst the semi precious stones. What does it look like?
The sound is interesting. When you can make a katars side guards sound like a tuning fork for a looong time, it is fantastic, but when you try with a katar where the hilt has been cast, the sound is very short.

Jens

Welcome to the forum, Dr. Feuerbach. :)

I'm sorry, may be I'm not getting something but:
I understand that magnetite will not make a difference, but taking in mind that iron melts at 1800K, and its Curie temperature is 1000K how it can have (in a liquid state) _any_ definite magnetization. If at 1000K the exchange can not hold these guys together, thermal energy should completely negate any infinitesmal influence that the Earth's magnetic field can possibly have on a liquid metall. Most of steels have Curie temperatures even lower than this, up to 300K and below for some non-corrosive nickel and other steels.

What do you mean by "iron particles" in the _liquid_ ? Domains ? Individual spins ? Non-uniformities of a liquid state ?

Perhaps the ingot does not have a magnetic alignment. :confused: I do not know of any experiments done on the archaeomagnetism of iron objects because for archaeomagnetism to be studies, the object must be in situ since firing. Archaeomagnetism is based on the principle of Thermoremanent magnetism (TRM). When a material containing iron such as clay, is heated to above 700 C (1290 F) the iron particles in the clay align to face magnetic north. The direction and intensity of the magnetism of the kiln or hearth is measured to give the date. I assumed that the same principle would have applied to the crucible steel. All the literature I have read just refers to "iron particles". Perhaps I am wrong and the ingot would not have had a TRM. As I said, I must do some more research on this. I must point out that having TRM and being magnetic are different things. As a side not, I have noticed that many archaeological slags with high iron content and iron lumps, that one side is definitly attracted to a magnete while the other side definitly repels.
Ann

Neither ignot nor iron objects nor any objects would have any magnetization when heated above Curie temperature.

What TRM is, is when cooled _slowly_ the object that in general is macroscopically isotropic will be magnetized along the Earth's magnetic field (with some exceptions).
I think that magma is Fe3O4 or something like this, and it can move around without loosing its magnetization, so the TRM happens when it's actually very hot, but I'm not quite sure about it.Very primitive discussion is located here:
http://www.moorlandschool.co.uk/earth/magnetism.htm

Again - magnetic properties of a macroscopic iron is a tremendously complex problem, that can be approach with numerics.

I'm not a specialist (so I wish to be corrected by ones), but:

Local magnetic structure depends on the crystalline lattice (unobtainable in normal conditions "diamond" iron for example is even anti-ferromagnetic), including stress, grain size etc. There are dozens (!) of phases that correspond to basically chemically similar steels that have different crystalline structure (and btw hardening is the way to obtain a metastable crystalline structure).
These lectures notes can be of help:
http://neon.mems.cmu.edu/laughlin/pdf/252.pdf
btw austenite is paramagnetic.
It will greatly depends on local chemical decomposition.
It's going to greatly depend on how uniform and fast the cooling is (uniform cooling leads to permanent magnetization alongside the local magnetic fields)
In general there are some companies who measure conductivity and magnetic permeability in order to undestand how uniform their steel is. I don't want to refer to non-publicly available papers, so:
http://doc.tms.org/ezMerchant/prodtm...df?OpenElement

Now to the question "what happens to a sword":
1. Swords are intrinsicly anisotropic due to their shape.
2. They are usually completely non-uniform in their magnetic properties due to nonuniformities of steel they are made off, and nonuniform cooling (first of all - nonuniform quenching).

Before I've the patterns of the dagger that were shown here I believed that such patterns can be produced by a weird external field. Now I think that because they are so damn non-uniform, and most of the dagger is not magnetized at all, the structure of this dagger should be tremendously non-uniform by itself, and I believe that conductance or X-Ray tests can prove that.

Now to what happens to swords when they lie in Earth. I thought about who would've been interested in this, and realzied that mine detector peoples are.
And indeed one can read a very interesting pamphlet over here:
http://neon.mems.cmu.edu/laughlin/pdf/252.pdf]

one should keep in mind that they are interested in a dipole moment i.e. the magnetic field procuded by objects very far away from the object itself, so it's much more uniform and depends on Earth's magnetic field in a much more direct way (since those guys quetly cool down underground), but we are interested in a local magnetization - quadrupole and up moments, that create these beautiful patterns.

Thanks. Lots of food for thought!

You are welcome.

Btw, the thing I always wondered about archaeomagnetism people - do you take in mind only the total magnetization and connect it to the strength of the Earth's magnetic field at the time of making of the object, or you actually use oomf/rkmag :) to see how the object with such chemistry and shape would react to the applied magnetic field of such strength ?

Hello Ann,
I would like to also welcome you to our forum, and to say what an honor it is to have you join us. I have had your outstanding work "Crucible Damascus Steel"for some time now, and it is brilliantly written!
For someone such as myself who is fascinated with history, yet lost with the complexities of physics, science and technology, it is an entirely readable and well crafted blend of history with well explained technical details.

This thread, as well as that of meteoric iron, have really become high profile and I am delighted that Jens posted them, as the knowledge and discussion has become irresistable! Aside from your extremely interesting article, most discussions on these topics can be quite dry to most of us in the lay world....but this thread keeps getting better, and your joining us is outstanding!

All the best,
Jim

Thank you Jim for your kind praise. Believe it or not, I was condemed by my PHD supervisor for not writing "academic" enough. I think that means big words and complicated sentence structures! However, my Russian friends said they like it because they can actually read/translate it easily. I always thought that the was the point of academic writing. Obviously I am not of the elitest academic type. I have so much more to add for the book that could not be put in the PhD
As to archaeomagnetism testing. I believe that the process involves carefully measuring the angle of declination as well as intensity and direction before it is removed from the ground, and then again in a special chamber to eliminate outside forces. I do not recall off hand how much the objects make up is involved.

Magnetic effects on a Case knife
 

OK ALL
I said I was winding down on my part of this thread started by JENS, and after reading
Ann and RIVKIN input on this magnetic stuff I should have stopped last week! :confused: Do all you follow their exchange? Man that is some heavy stuff. Anyway I said I would do as FEARN suggested and acquire a magnetic knife holder and zap a carbon blade.
I used a Case butcher knife, as was in contact with the magnetic holder for approximately five minutes, the pictures show that the blade did take magnetic profile with three pols.
I also took a picture of the Mysore dagger with four compasses on the blade to show you that it has the four changes all at the same time.
Gene

Hi Ann,
That is exactly what is great! You are able to discuss material that is typically pretty involved and technical and integrate fascinating historical data, which makes it possible to understand :)
The original course of this thread was to try to discover how extensively lodestone was involved in the wootz in blades. In some of the material we discovered it seems that it inadvertantly occurred in the raw material from Hyderabad, which remained in certain janbiyya blades found in Arabia.

The ensuing discussion here has been fascinating, and I think I've learned more than in any science class I ever took! ( as far as I can remember...the little red schoolhouse ya know!!:)

Gene,
You better not bail out on us here!!! :) You have been doing an incredible job of scientific experimentation, I think the first of this type I can recall. What you are doing presents some excellent hands on perspective for some of the somewhat complex ideas that have come up. Thank you for following through on this !!! Outstanding work!

All the best,
Jim

Gene, you are doing excellent with the compasses – tell me did you empty the shop :D?
Allow me just one question, when you show the blade with the compasses, it seems as if the magnetism north-south is farther away from each other than the magnets on the knife holder – is that so?

Jens

Knife holder test
 

JENS
You are very astute MR. JENS :)
I failed to take a picture of the knife on the magnetic holder at the tip end.
I placed the knife on the holder in two different places that is why you see two areas of magnetic fields and not just the one, both times were approximately five minutes each time with the tip end placement being the last one.
I thing the Case knife picture was different in that the knife profile came out very well while on the Mysore dagger just the magnetic fields are shown.
You ask about the compasses, yes I had to go to two different stores to get them, I tried to get all of them to be the same but could not find four just alike.
One other thing JENS, is that if you look closely at the Mysore dagger with the four compasses on the blade you will see that the tip end compasses is pointing North not South. I do not know why that happened as I did not notice it myself until I posted the pictures, another mystery on the never ending quest for information on Magnetic Weapons! :)
JIM
I thank you for your comments and will of course stay around as this thread is now becoming a college course for the uninformed (me).
With folks like you and ANN, as well as RIVKIN and I must also add
FEARN for his input/suggestions ( I think he is getting all of his "smarts" from his mother! :D ) it is hard not to learn from all of this. I also think it is a very interesting subject and not well understood. I do "blame" all of this on JENS, why cant he just read an not ask all of these hard questions? :D
Gene

This is all such great stuff. :cool: It will take me awhile to absorb it all and figure out what it all means! I got someone lined up with homemade ingots any suggestions of how to test them? RIVKIN could you suggest any suitable methods?

Gene, you really had me laugh aloud, I guess that you did not get a discount price, since you had to buy them in two different stores – if you ‘only’ buy two or three compasses a one store, it is harder to discuss the price – although I think a camel dealer would have :rolleyes:.

Ann, would it be possible for you to show a picture of one of the ingots?
If it looks like I think, it is like round bread, being thinker in the middle. Would that not make a difference when trying to make them magnetic? Also, if the ingot is round, how would the magnetism be at the ‘sides’? Would it not be different if it is longish :confused:?

Jens

Wootz ingots
 

JENS
I have an wootz ingot and it is round/dome shaped, and I will take a picture of it and I also have a broken flat wootz bar/ingot all gotten from Artzi and I take a picture of that one also.
ANN
let me know what you want me to do as for as applying a compass on them,( I do have a supply of them! :) )
The bars/ingots have not be subjected to any magnetic fields by me.

I am glad to have you at bat as you sure are one heavy hitter :D .
Gene

this post is way over my head, but am enjoying the non-participating observation.
dr ann, its great to have someone of your knowledge and passion on board. i am assuming from your article, knowledge and background that your doctrate is related to your current studies. the only reason i ask, is that i have this knee problem in cold weathers.... :)
gene, you dont fail to bowl us over with your ingenuity. not sure what you'll come up with next, but will hide in case there are explosions.
well done jens, for starting and carrying this discussion. i still havent got a clue whats going on but its all fun!

I do not have the ingot...they are in Germany, I think. I was just wondering if they had any natural polarity or magnetic properties. My friend is willing to test them. As I have mentioned before, I have not done any research on this so my knowledge of magnets etc is very limited (for the moment at least). Depending where they were made, the ingots can range from light bulb shaped, to cone shaped, to elongated, to egg like, to puck shaped. Depends on the crucibles interior shape.
Technically my Doctorate is in Archaeometallurgy (the study of ancient metals, yes...obscure). PhD was titled: Crucible Steel in Central Asia: Production, use and origins. So I have been working on the topic for a while, but there is still so much to learn! But I really am more of an Archaeological Scientist, as I also do conservation, glass, glazes, and ceramics...but all this inorganic stuff is the same to me. I don't do bones, so can't help with that knee :) . I wish I had the money of a medical doctor! I got the same student loan debts as one! :eek:

Wootz ingots magnetic properties
 

JENS
Is this the type of wootz ingot you were referring to, the round one?

Ann
you can have both wootz ingots for your testing if you want them, no string attached. and they are here in the USA ( some think Georgia is not however in the USA. but it is :) ) As you can tell from the pictures that the wootz ingots are neutral with no magnetic fields as all the compasses are pointing North.

B.I.
I thought that JENS was the mind reader of the forum. Your comment about blowing up things. When I left my old Laboratory position and took the chief Health Physic position at a Nuclear Power Plant, my old Plant Manager told
my replacement that " if Gene hasn't blown up he lab by now it will never be blown up", and that sir is the truth! So you also have the mind reading ability! :D
Gene