This is mine. Needs a bit of a clean up. No markings on the blade, which is 38" long. Surprisingly handy for such a hefty weapon if you finger the blade at the ricasso.

Schiavona Pommel Variety
 

Thankyou Jim for those notes most helpful, and thankyou Triarii for sharing your example.

At this stage my article is in its infancy, and I have started by comparing and tracking pommels. Attached is what I have found so far having examined 132 examples. I have only illustrated individual examples of different styles, not all 132. What I have found thus far is that brass decorated pommel first appeared on examples dating after 1600, and only become more common in the late 17th to early 18th centuries. The plain functional iron pommel with a simple circular protrusion appears to have continued in use for the life of the Schiavona pattern. Perhaps the Iron pommel can be associated with soldiers rather than officers, which would account for the number of them appearing in comparison to the more decorative brass versions.

Cheers Cathey

Hello Cathey. In case you wish to have a look to my ex- "PROTO" Schiavona variant ...

From the number of basket hilted swords I've seen where the guard bars aren't connected to the pommel (they just touch or sit in a shallow groove) and they have become displaced, either to one side or more often pushed downwards below the pommel, I think you're right. From practical experience with decent reenactment hilted swords, other battle and non-battle damage is just as likely.
As to a sword knot, I think it is too small and unlikely, though some contemporary accounts like Vernon's 'Young Horseman' (1644) do refer to a 'riband or the like' or 'a string' for this purpose.

Schiavona or Baskethilt?
 

I picked up this sword at an auction over the weekend. It was described as a Southern German or Austrian (or Styrian) baskethilt broadsword. Looks somewhat like a schiavona to me...

I have received a number of messages regarding this sword. The doubled-edged blade has a long central fuller and is 42" and the overall length of the sword is 48 inches. There are a number of characters inside the fullers on both sides that are tough to make out. I attached a rough rendering of the symbol on both sides of the blade and two more pix. Sure would like to know who made it!

as sent to you by pm, this type is frequently found in the Dutch soil, and can be dated in the last quarter of the 16th century. see excavated basket hilts and such a sword from the Visser collection, sold by Bonhams in 2007.

In the fuller is written IN VALENCIA, same as a Dutch example of a basket hilt sword in my collection. Unfortunately it is not possible to say who made it.

see all pics attached.

best,
Jasper

Excellent information!
 

This information and photos are very helpful - Thanks!!! I wonder if the image I attached of the armorers mark that looks like and eye with three crosses on either side may help identify the maker?

Dutch Sword
 

Thanks Jasper - Very helpful!

The schiavona is nr 1 on my list of swords to pursue, so this thread is incredibly helpful, thanks for sharing all this research!

EDIT: This thread (about my own personal favorite example) is worth checking out as it has some gorgeous examples. If I can one day find one similar to that one it would be the centerpiece of my collection perhaps for the rest of my life. The collection of the guy who bought it is impressive, to say the least:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...1&d=1655557469

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...1&d=1655557469

Still bummed. }|:oP

Schiavona Article
 

Hi Guys

My article for the Heritage Arms Society is getting closer to being completed; however, it has now expanded to over 17 pages and growing rapidly. I have found 135 examples including a number or strange variations, plus 4 Schiavone’s locally to examine, one with its original scabbard. Fernado’s proto example and those that have also now surfaced will need to be treated as variations I think rather than entirely new categories. I have come across some papers by Gianrodolfo Rotasso that have proved very enlightening. He has made a reference “the wonderful cage which in the following centuries will develop into various types, it is in fact due to the great master Andrea Ferrara”. However he does not go on to elaborate as to why he has credited Andrea Ferrara with the development of this hilt. Perhaps he has covered this in a publication I am yet to track down.

I am now in the process of re-reading my reference material to draw some conclusions and try and fit them into the paper in a way that makes sense, this is proving challenging.

If anyone has any additional material regarding the Schiavona written by Gianrodolfo Rotasso I would greatly appreciate access to a copy.

At present my paper is structured as follows:
Schiavonesca and the Emergence of the Cats Head Pommel
The Schiavona (also referred to as Schiavone, Schiavoni or Stratiotenschwert by some German authors)
Manufacturing centre Belluno Italy
Two categories of Schiavona
My approach to Guard development and dating
The Leather Hat
The Scabbard
The impact of the 30-year war
Schiavona Sword Blades
Schiavona Pommel Design Variety
Proto Schiavona’s?
The Skeleton Guard
The Fishnet (or Trellis) Guard
The Schiavona Rapier
Variations
Conclusion.

Cheers Cathey

I wish you luck with the writing, I have been fortunately able to publish a few pieces and know how difficult it can be!

I hadn't heard of Gianrodolfo Rotasso's work before, or this claim about Andrea Ferrara, but found it mentioned here:

Do you have a copy of Lionello Boccia's article entitled "Les épées des Esclavons: entre Venise et Illyrie", in Genava 43 (1995)?

Best,
Mark

Lionello Boccia article
 

Hi Mark

I have a large book by Lionello Boccia but not the article you mentioned. I don’t suppose you have a copy you could send me? I would be happy to share my article with you when it is finally finished.

Cheers Cathey

I have read it but do not have a copy, unfortunately. I found it in one of the university libraries in my region. I'll scan it for you at my next opportunity, but this could be a few months... I don't know if that will be quick enough for your timeline.

Odd example
 

I came across this rather ugly (IMHO) example and felt I should draw it to your attention in case it was of interest. It is currently up for auction.
This is the description translated roughly from German:
Lattice basket Schiavona, Italy around 1700, double-edged, slender blade, blade with patina and with slight traces of corrosion, openwork in the upper part, iron, somewhat loosened, cut basket hilt, with straight cross-guard, wooden grip. about 100cm

Lionello Boccia article
 

Hi Mark, thanks for your offer, I don't mind how long it takes as I have not been able to track down a copy.

Cheers Cathey

Does the first picture show a pommel with a hole to receive a knuckle bow? If so, a composite piece?

Strange Schiavona for auction
 

Hi urbanspaceman

Yes I did see this one, the blade is nice and early Italian I think, but the hilt is very odd to me. Looks like it has been played with.

Cheers Cathey

compo corretto
 

A composite piece... yes. It is certainly a mess, but would still work.

lenght of handle
 

Keith, the length of the handle appears to be longer than average. The blade seems slender. Which to me gives the impression that this was a stabbing weapon. A long time ago I remember reading that these were primarily thrusting weapons but looking at all the examples of blades on this thread and on the forum, it seems that there were possibly several schools of thought associated with this hilt.

Cathy, these may be questions bordering on my being simple minded, did the average length of the handle change over time? Did the balance of the blade shift as well? Am I correct in thinking that many of these were cut and thrust weapons? In your research for the article did you find that they became more thrust orientated as the hilt became more intricate? Or did they continue to be manufactured for a diversity of fencing styles?

what he said
 

Interesting, isn't it?
Personal inclination is towards wide broadsword blades with chopping in mind. The length and strength helped when dealing with a typical munition's grade rapier.
I can understand why the Border Reivers coveted them.
I too think they are the most desirable of all swords and I am very keen to acquire one.

Schiavona Infantry or cavalry
 

Just as an update, my article is almost finished now over 25 pages long. It appears to me through examination of about 140 examples that they may have been largely for infantry use very early. The Schiavonesca particularly appear to have been lighter and had shorter blades. Also the early suggestion of Infantry or Marine use could be applied to these early examples, pre the caged hilt and the early skeleton hilts.

However, it appears with the advent of the 30-year war that the Schiavona came into its own as a cavalry weapon. Curtaining in the 17th and 18th Centuries blades on average are long and wide, more suited to cavalry than infantry. They also seem to have transitioned from a general use broadsword, through to what I would describe as a riding sword (similar to a rapier but with a much broader and heavier blade) through to the Rapier with a narrower blade and a longer ricasso.

Looking at my late 18th century example, I can not imagine trying to fence with this weapon, but from horseback it would have been most effective.

Cheers Cathey.

metal rain cap
 

I am attempting to bring my article for the Heritage Arms Society on the Schiavona to the finish line, then I found a reference to a metal rain cap. Has anyone heard of these before or have any reference material on them they would be prepared to share. Here is a picture of one. It appears to be a metal shaped plate fitted to the bottom so the guard with screws, I can't find any mention of it in my existing references other than a book by Andrew Garcia.

Cheers Cathey

rain cap picture
 

Here's another one on this luxurious sword.
It looks like an aftermarket addition and it is very ugly in my opinion.
Anyone who owned this sword is unlikely to be out in the rain without an umbrellahttp://www.vikingsword.com/vb/images/icons/icon7.gif
BTW. I still think this is a wootz blade or Bulat at least.
ps
I also do not think it would really be of any use; I can think of other simpler, prettier ways of keeping the rain off the blade.

pps
 

Here's another picture of it that reinforces my suggestion it is an aftermarket addition; and a poor - sorry - picture of the entire sword and scabbard that further suggests it's an add-on.

Those are also pictures from Andrew Garcia's site. He's selling the sword there (EDIT: I thought it was the same sword initially but they're clearly not the same). So I guess the only two instances of this that we have so far are from his site and book.

Not a rain guard
 

Hi Guys, yes one is from Andrew Garcia's site the other was posted on facebook. I know of one other example but have been unable to get pictures. From what I can see this fitting would not keep rain out of the scabbard but channel it into the scabbard. Other collectors have agreed that it is likely an addition to add protection to the hand.

Cheers Cathey

As far as I can see from the pictures, the cap runs up to the lower edge of the actual rain guard that is built into the grip, so I don't think it's actually intended to be a rain guard, but rather a guard plate to protect the fingers by closing the largish opening at the bottom of the guard. The diagram from his site calls it a "massive silver guard". You can make out the opening of the rain guard inside the opening in the guard plate in the picture below.

It looks like the scabbard on the one from Andrew Garcia's website has some chafe marks on it and I'm guessing that's how far the scabbard went into the (actual) rain guard (presumably the top of the scabbard is intended to fit into that?), in which case the metal plate would not funnel water into the scabbard but only towards the outside of it. But I'm just speculating here.

Locket
 

Further speculation:
looking at the measurements, I don't think the scabbard ever went that far into a rain-guard; I think the chafing is a result of a locket... removed when this plate was added.
Whadayathink?

I guess it's possible... But just from looking (with my admittedly somewhat untrained eyes) at how the leather looks near the chape, I would think it'd be more damaged, and the rain guard seems historic so you'd think it'd fit over the scabbard at least to some extent because that's kind of the point of having a rain guard...
And furthermore, my question would be why? Why remove an antique locket and then drill holes through a nice looking guard on a super expensive sword to add a guard plate that is anomalous for the type?
But people do weird things sometimes I suppose.

EDIT: As an aside, I found another example with a rain guard (though it's hard to see) and it also does not have a locket on the scabbard. Pictures added (more at the link).

EDIT: Argh why is this image upload thing so fickle? Trying to upload a better version of the full sized image but it seems to just be loading the older version. :mad:

To lockett or not to lockett
 

I suspect you are right; on reflection, the missing locket idea probably does not hold up.

Rain Guards
 

This is the first time I have seen this term used for many years, and I knew I had found some curious reference to this many years ago. Unfortunately while I kept images of a leather example of one of these, I did not note the source.

With the metal shield screwed to the bottom of the trellis on the schiavona noted, it does not seem that purpose would be likely, but more in the type of pragmatic lore of the guardapolvo (dust guard) on cup hilt rapiers.

Attached is the admittedly vague reference from one of my very old notebooks, just for comparison.

Just noticed that this schiavona also has a guard plate.

Private Message
 

Hi Fernando. Do you know why my PM to Cathey was not sent?

Are you sure it wasn't sent? I tried PM-ing Cathey a week or so ago but did not get a response either. I just assumed it went unnoticed.

Also, as much as I'm interested in discussing it as it is the first flamberge schiavona I've come across, please note that the sword above is still in auction until the 16th.

EDIT: This might explain the issue with unnoticed PMs.

pm problem
 

I looked in my 'SENT' folder and it was not there. Did you check yours Werecow.
I'm not certain what, precisely, defines forbidden in regard to auctions. I assumed as no auction house name was mentioned it was ok but I will certainly bow to contradictions.

Noted ... and deleted. Thanks for the warning.

Recalling rules ...
 

Rules
 

Mea Culpa

Yeah, it is in my "sent" folder so I guess something else is going on with your case.