Jim, in a way i am glad that you are no expert in both artillery dynamics and photography ... for obvious reasons ;).
If you cared for the details narrated here on the effects of (solid shot) artillery, you wouldn't be surprised that a mid size cannon ball can penetrate a lamp post ... naturally a hollow one, as they all used to be. Neither would we be surprised that the post did not collapse because, being made of some sort of cast iron, would not bend.
Two reasons would explain the impressive quantity of holes in the post. Considering that the rioters had been equipped with nine cannons, after a few hours the number of volleys shot in the same direction would be fairly numerous, those shots on the post not being so implausible. Besides, this was an encounter between nationals; they would either avoid to aim at their keen with precision or, as untrained civilians, didn't have the ability to aim correctly at the target ... adding that the avenue where they were firing from (Liberdade) is rather inclined, a good reason to explain the high aiming.
One last reason to rely on the veracity of this photo is that, in a tiny country like Portugal, there is no Times magazine with their bucks or enough audience to justify a photographer to make up such a fantasy.
And by the way, i don't discern in the picture any background behind the crowd to check for collateral damage in the architecture.
To say that, the only unnatural fact i would admit, is that the (unknown) photographer invited those people to gather behind the post for an historic portrait.


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I do appreciate this thorough elucidation as well as Davids keen and experienced insight into photojournalism. In studying the historic aspects of arms and armor, in many cases we do have to rely on photographic evidence obviously in more recent (1850s +) instances. In this the skills used in 'historical detection' are used in evaluating images as you guys have described. Most interesting.

I think, in a way, what is most notable or memorable in the well riddled lamp post photo, is as I have mentioned, the extremely well placed penetrations. These hollow steel fluted posts would not, as mentioned, be terribly thick, so the holes do seem logical.
What I meant by 'collateral damage' is the building walls behind the post, which do not seem (to me) to reflect any damage from these solid shots, while the targeted lamp post has seemingly the entire brunt of the barrage. In most cases with photo images of streets where gunfire or especially heavy rounds in any size of ordnance I have seen, there are chunks of walls and sculptured trim or figures blown off.
Just sayin' 'good shootin'.....fire for effect!

What is impressive is that I had always thought there was a modicum of specialized skill in firing artillery, so having such persons among a crowd of rioting people is remarkable. That indeed makes the outcome here 'historic' and the 'target' pole good evidence of such proficiency .

Jim, i understood you in the first place; just wouldn't figure our what you meant by building walls, as all we can see in the picture is he massive base of the monument. Besides, we must take into account that, the shooting came from the back where the crowd & lamp were pictured. Most probably the back of monument was hit and damaged by the shooting coming from up the avenue, something we couldn't see in the picture and, in any case, must have been repaired.


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Thanks Fernando.
Only seeing the corner of some sort of architecture I mistook it for part of a building. I also could not tell which direction the firing came from. This is the hard part of evaluating from photos, especially if there is only a single image without additional detail etc.
With this we can see how images can be misperceived and 'staging' possible without advantage of different vantage points.

Waterloo hospital site to be dug up by team including UK veterans

From The Guardian - Daniel Boffey in Brussels.

Quote"A group of 25 British and Dutch military veterans are to join the first excavation of the main field hospital established by the Duke of Wellington during the Battle of Waterloo. The former soldiers, sailors and RAF personnel will work with archaeologists, led by Prof Tony Pollard of Glasgow …"Unquote.

Thus in keeping with the theme above, of battle injuries inflicted... Something the weapons designers argued with incessantly...hardly surprising ! I note that the main Field Hospital at Waterloo on the British side is being excavated with a big British team to discover among other things what the main injuries were from gunpowder weapons and blades..Thousands of British troops were treated under continuous fire and the injuries were horrific as men were operated on often in the open...gaping laceration wounds inflicted by French Cavalry Swords and massive cannon and bullet wounds were treated all under fire... Most of the dead were cremated (and there are no graves) and after their bones were used as fertilizer by local farmers..

That is a fascinating perspective on 'battle' and in this case, returning to the original theme of the thread posed toward possible 'Waterloo' provenance of a cannon ball.
The scavenging of battlefields was of course well known practice, and while the initial 'retrieval' of goods was by soldiers, but in their case mostly taking much needed supply materials including clothing or what was required. In most cases, soldiers' kit was meagre and worn or damaged, and they took the opportunity to 'upgrade' or replace their own items.
For example, at Waterloo, one badly wounded soldier was still cognizant in hours after the battle, but his wounds so debilitating he could not speak. He was partially dragged as his boots were pulled off. These were the items precious to the soldiers trying to survive.
Coats, and belts, perhaps ammunition cases etc. would replace items the soldiers had and were damaged or lost during the battle.

Items such as weaponry, and ordnance etc. were most often dragged off by civilian population drawn to the place for retrieval of such goods which could be readily sold as surplus, scrap or sometimes novelties.

Often the ghastly business of 'clean up' of decomposed and further ravaged bodies by predators, beyond the obvious carnage of the wounds that killed these men, was often not done for months and longer. Indeed, the more ghastly treatment of these remains did even include pulverizing of bones into fertilizer.....a matter of fact of the unceremonious disregard for men who fought heroically for their causes.

The case described here of excavation of a field hospital is interesting as the resulting interment of remains was likely situated away from the primary locations of battle, and the lesser volume more reasonably handled.

Incredible as it may seem!~after Waterloo there was a run on false teeth …


Waterloo Teeth – the latest fashion

They say that, on the day after the battle, you couldn’t find a pair of pliers for love nor money. Not for fifty miles around. The new fashion – in London, Paris, Berlin, St. Petersburg and New York – was for dentures fitted with real teeth. And there, on those few square miles of Belgian soil, lay no less than 50,000 potential donors, most of them dead, the rest so close to it that it didn’t much matter. It was the Etruscans, apparently, who first invented dentures – around 700 BC. Teeth from another person or an animal, such as an ox, were inserted into a band of gold with a metal pin and fitted on to the remaining teeth. Dentures remained an option only for the wealthy as they were expensive to make. They appeared again in the 18th Century when sugar addiction had taken a dreadful toll of Europe’s teeth. Fans became popular, not to keep their owners cool, but to waft away the stench of gum disease. False teeth became popular once more. And perhaps the most famous complete set of dentures was that owned by George Washington. It’s pure myth that they were made of wood, of course. In truth, each tooth was carved from ivory, set into lead, and spring-loaded. Uncomfortable! After Waterloo, battlefield casualties became the main source of denture teeth until after the American Civil War. And, after Waterloo, a good incisor could fetch as much as two guineas – the equivalent, today, of around £300.
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The valiant dead used for fertilize

The most recently discovered casualty of the battle was found in 2012 under a car park during the reconstruction of the Waterloo visitor centre. Historian Gareth Glover has pieced together all the available clues discovered with the skeleton and believes that the soldier was Friedrich Brandt, a Hanoverian fighting with the King’s German Legion. Brandt apparently suffered from curvature of the spine but he was killed by a musket ball – still lodged in his ribs when his body was found. This is the first completely intact skeleton to be found on the site for almost 200 years. And that’s no surprise since, until about fifty years after the battle, companies considered it “fair game” to dig up battlefield dead from their mass graves and grind down their bones for sale to local farmers as fertilizer!

Please see https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...5&&FORM=VRDGAR which is an excellent piece of detective work... and fascinating comparison of the cannon used by both sides and the effect of the weather. The film also discusses the ground vital to Wellingtons troops and how it was disastrous for Napoleon. Battle casualties and how the British quality of treatment had improved is discussed. The point when Ney who had taken over on the battlefield is examined showing a shocking error of judgement when he ordered a huge attack based on the false personal belief that the British were in retreat. This video is highly recommended.

Ibrahim thank you for the most interesting look into some of the other aspects of the various 'uses' and perspectives involved in both human remains and battlefield debris outside the 'souvenir' phenomenon.
While it is sometimes difficult to consider the rather dark and sometimes grisly elements of these circumstances, we remember that the weapons we study are also commonly involved in battles and warfare. Looking into the entire scope of these contexts is sometimes necessary for historians of arms, simply for perspective and understanding of the times, though many might consider such views sensationalized and reprehensible.

As someone who has gone through many historic references on battles and military history of campaigns, I always appreciate these insights, however harsh they might seem, as I more appreciate what these people went through.

I think of the apocryphal quote by Robert E. Lee , Confederate General (1862) ..
"...it is well that war is so terrible- lest we grow too fond of it".

And on the opposing Union side, General William Sherman,
"...war is hell".
That brief version removes the full context of what he actually said..
"...I am tired and sick of war. It's glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have never fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for vengeance and desolation. War is hell. "

The only thing worse than a battle lost is a battle won. Arthur Wellesley, Aftermath of the Battle of Waterloo, 1815.

Wellesley deliberately picked the battlefield, Napoleon was not at his best and did NOT know the field. The Duke planned the whole thing, including feigning the retreat, but it still was a close thing and had the Prussians been a bit late, or the intervening ground not soggy, we might all be speaking French.

Of course, he couldn't have done it without Col. Sharpe. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4_1a6pBPIU

Armour of a cuirasse du carabinier holed by a cannonball ..Waterloo.

OUCH!

Bet that stung. probably for not very long tho. It's just a flesh wound.

A little duck tape, bit of baling wire, and some brass paint & the curass will be almost like new