Two more.

Guys, this is all the help & advice I could ever wish for. I am truly indebted. Thanks to one and all!

A few remarks:
1 - I have read & considered ALL of your kind inputs and I study your pics in detail. If you should find I have here or there not responded to your specific hint and not executed my new wrongko as you suggested, please do not think I did not agree. As I wrote to Alan, I need to do it in the way that works for me. Oftentimes one's work, as it is progresses in the workshop, dictates to one how the next step needs to be taken to ensure a good end product.

2 - Having procured a good enough piece of wood from a friend for the remake (2nd try) of the gambar, I found myself better able to work the wood. You will all know: practice makes perfect. I'm sure if this 2nd try does not work out and I have to do it once again, the 3rd gambar would be even better! Imagine if I had to make a dozen Bugis gambars, how well organised I would be after the last one! :D For this 2nd try I made a cardboard template for the opening in the top of the gambar where the blade is inserted. Although I was quite satisfied with the first try without the template, this second one is just about perfect! I laid the template over the top and scribed its outline on the wood. Then with my new-found expertise with the angle grinder and a motley assortment of special bits in my vertical drill stand, I removed the wood required and was met with a truly beautiful fit.

3 - I'm not really very impressed with the wood I got from the friend, as it is a bit too grainy for my liking. It looks a lot like Bluegum wood to me! But I have come quite far already and can't turn back now. Pics will soon follow!

4 - To be very honest, those tongues and side-mounted tenons some of you described, which go between the gandar & gambar sound terribly hard to carve. :eek: I am intimidated, and I still have to go there... :)

I have indicated how reluctant I am to post pre-completion pics of the wrongko project, but David felt that it would be good, so I respect that.

This pic shows how far I have come. The blade goes in deep enough, the fit is satisfactory. The wood is a bit difficult to work with; I have used various tools to reach this stage. From here on it will be carving knives and files, then sandpaper. (The angle grinder's work is done!) :D

Johan, you might find that scrapers will be useful in shaping the contours.

The typical cabinet scraper is a piece of rectangular steel about 6'X3", but for concave and convex surfaces you can make your own scrapers from pieces of heavy tin can, just cut the needed shape with tin snips.

I use old pocket knives a lot as both carving knives and as scrapers, the castrating blade on 3 blade stock knife makes a very good detail scraper.

Pieces of glass are also useful as scrapers.

Johan, just one remark regarding the line you have drawn on Gambar/Sampir with pen - if that's the line you later intend to carve - it shouldn't be parallel to the central axis of the whole sheath (the sheath will then look stiff), it should fall a little bit inwards. At which angle - you should esthetically decide it, considering all other angles of outlines of your Sampir, and also hilt of your Keris when sheathed. They all as ensemble should be in a state of a floating harmony.

Second attempt.

For comparison.

Yes, three sheaths in Sulawesi style.

Yes Gustav, they might well be Sulawesi, frankly, I cannot with any certainty distinguish between any of the Bugis scabbard styles. If I look at the Ahmad Ubbe book I see a great variety of styles that have all been identified as "South Sulawesi", or "South Sulawesi + (some other location)" and all given the name of "jonga-jonga". This great variety of styles includes scabbards that I cannot distinguish from the one that you have shown us.

The overall style of all the scabbards that Ahmad Ubbe shows is very similar, but whereas the indented line that on your scabbard tilts in, and on my scabbards is more or less parallel with the rear edge of the gambar, on Ahmad Ubbe's examples is subject to variation in both angle and style.

I would be the first to admit that I have never done any in depth study of Bugis-style keris. I have never visited the Bugis cultural areas, I have never done field research on any keris except Javanese, Madurese and Balinese, so I do not hold any firm opinions on anything to do with Bugis-style keris. I do know as personal friends, several Bugis people, and they have family keris (which again show a range of stylistic variation) but regrettably they know nothing at all about keris.

Because of my lack of knowledge in this regard, I find it somewhere between extremely difficult and impossible to give a precise geographic point of origin for any Bugis style keris.

If I look at the keris shown in Ahmad Ubbe's book, what I see are keris that have been identified by acknowledged authorities in the field of Bugis keris study, as "South Sulawesi", yet those keris vary across the entire span of Bugis-style keris. I am only talking about the keris here, that is, the blade alone, not the dress.

I really do envy those people who can give a precise geographic point of origin for a Bugis-style keris and its dress.

More progress has been made (see two pics). The project still looks ugly in its lack of completion, but I hope to remedy that as well as possible with painstaking work. I know that I am not able to live up to the high standards you all have brought forward in your advice and pictures for my benefit, but I think you will come to realise that it was not possible for the likes of me (not an experienced carver, not having a real scabbard to copy) to deliver a product even remotely equal to a true Bugis keris wrongko. For starters, the wood does not even come close to timoho or kemuning. But I know that I am doing what I can and learning all the way. Please note that the the gambar I am wresting from the unyielding wood has got a mind of its own, and although I frequently compare my work to your pics, it is turning out somewhat different! Please forgive me.

Hello Johan,

No worries, I'm confident it will look much better, finally!

What you are experiencing is the "spirit of the wood" and an experienced carver would take this into account when selecting and during carving wood. Just try to go with the flow as best as you can... ;)

The upturned stern still needs quite some wood to be removed and also the whole piece could become more thinner, especially just right of the socket for the stem. I'd also make the notch on the left less substantial (if you compare it to the examples, this does run almost the whole length and is fairly shallow groove).

Tropical hardwoods tend to have very large pores and it will be wise to fill them before the final polishing steps. Any surface treatment (boiled linseed oil, shellac, wax) will make the wood looking much nicer than in its current raw state! Is the crosspiece teak?

BTW, don't forget to wear a mask to avoid wood dust (many timbers are proven or suspected to be carcinogenic).

Regards,
Kai

Try scrapers and coarse garnet/sand paper Johan, and work in the same direction as the grain. Never work against the grain and keep working across the grain to an absolute bare minimum.

Using a scraper you can model a piece of wood --- or steel for that matter --- a very little bit at a time, and with minimum effort. For detail work with a scraper you can grind a radius onto the end of an old three sided file, this sort of scraper is very useful to get into corners.

It is best to work with the paper by itself, that is, without a rubbing stick or block, at this point in the job. Fold the paper in three so that there is one rough surface against the back of the paper, this prevents the folded paper from moving around. Don't use wet&dry paper, use either genuine garnet paper (which might be difficult to get hold of), or one of the newer coloured sand papers, if I were doing this job I'd probably be using 60/80/100 grit at this point.

Once again, excellent advice and hints, and I will investigate & follow them for sure! Things are getting hairy now, and impatient me must be very careful to not upset the project with hasty work. Thank you!

Well, perhaps you see now how that suggestion was meant that for your own good, not simply our curiosity. It allows our members to help you adjust and "correct" before your sheath takes its final form. ;)

David, my scabbard is taking form on its own, disregarding my strict and demanding supervision! It has a mind of its own. When I lay down my tools upon completion, we will all be able to see what the result was. You might exclaim: "But why does it look like THAT?" Then I'll have to answer: "Beats me!" ;) :shrug:

Kai, you ask what the crosspiece is made of. My "supplier" (bless his motley woodpile) self-assuredly proclaims it to be "saligna". To my knowledge that's wood from the Australian bluegum tree. It's the very devil to carve. I'm now trying to make a scraper a la Alan.

Not a good timber for carving Johan.

The up side is that when you complete your wrongko out of that stuff you will be able to carve anything.

One of my floors is made from blue gum parquetry. Its a real good flooring timber.

Sigh - yes, the house I grew up in at Simonstown also had such a floor. In Afrikaans we called it a "blokkiesvloer" (block-floor). My mom polished it regularly with an electric Columbus two-brush wax polisher. I'm sure any self-respecting mranggi would have stoked his hearth fire with it. :o

The wood is quite unyielding, and to get it as far as is shown in the two newest pics, took some doing. The pics also show the wide end of the gandar with four bambu pins inserted and epoxied in place. There's going to come a time after the gandar is affixed to the gambar, when the final finishing of both together must take place, but then I'll not be able to use much force, for fear of straining or even breaking the joint. (The wrongko's joint, not my own....!!!) :D

Hello Johan,

Congrats for progressing with your feat!

There should be no distinct upper rim: a gentle widening would be perfect, especially towards the ends; the curve of the side surfaces should blend into the upper surface though...

Regards,
Kai

Hello Johan,
This is how the integral tenons/ tongues should look like on the gandar side. Sorry, the piece is not in pristine condition (very old balinese scabbard). This joint was nailed but it should normally be glued only.
Regards

Johan, when you get to finishing the glued together wrongko, it would be advisable to make a long, thin wedge to insert down into the gandar, you can then pack the sides of the wedge against the inside of the gambar mouth, this will give you additional support for the finishing process.

Jean & Kai, looking once more at your latest pics, I am totally impressed with the craftmanship of the old mranggi's. And I am now in the position to appreciate their skill even more!

Thanks, Alan, your suggestion deserves full consideration - anything to get the joint sturdy. BTW, I googled some pics of the special tools you mentioned earlier: the thin one with the serrated teeth like a miniature ladder, and the other like an arrowhead. Fascinating!

You have very artistic hands Johan. I doubt I will ever be able to make a wrangka.

It is fun to imagine that this keris will someday continue to travel the world, and probably 100 years from now some keris "specialist" will classify your wrangka to a certain (or probably even a pinpoint) region in Sumatra whereas it is actually from South Africa.. :D Since you have the skills, probably you can come up with a slightly different design of the gambar - just to get those future "specialists" scratching their heads.. :D

Rasdan, of course it's not my intention to cause future keris archeological havoc, but I am laughing merrily at the scenario you sketched. You suggest I make the gambar in my own signature style, but let me tell you it's going to come out like that even if I don't mean it. At least I can attest that I have TRIED to follow all the kind pieces of advice the forum guys have proposed til now.

I'm sorry to burden you all with more pics of my project so soon (I know there's lots more important stuff going on in our forum members' collections & discussions) but I'm feeling like a kid now, who's just won a big prize. The reason I say this is that I've been dreading the moment of joining the gandar to the gambar. What if I don't do it correctly & accurately and the join looks sloppy? Well, the job went well & I've got a burden off my shoulders! So I'd like to share my method with you, not to brag about my success but because I'm so relieved. I've got new enthusiasm now for the endless sanding procedure to make the join look neat on the outside.

The four pics will show. First I made a few cardboard templates and experimentally clipped holes into them that correspond to the four bambu pins in the gandar. From these I selected the one that fits best. Then I transferred the hole marks onto the end of the gambar with a pencil, following which I drilled pilot holes into the gambar. Of course, I had to secure the gambar on the vertical drill press platform and make sure the drill holes are made perpendicularly into the gambar join face. Then I changed to a bigger drill bit and expanded the pilot holes. You'll see from the 3rd & 4th pics that I have some reason to be elated. The epoxy has not been applied yet, there will come a time for that. Alan's suggestion will also still be put into practice.

I excitedly explained the steps I followed to my 82 year old sister living with us, and she had the following to say: "What a beautiful pink colour the wood is!" Pink indeed.

Actually I think this is part of a natural process going on. It is very probable that a majority of wrangka (and also blade) styles what we currently have throughout the keris region is a result of copying. And copying form copies that also produces different designs along the way whether the maker realise or not. Anyhow thank you for sharing your project with us.

Yes Rasdan you are so right.

Once the keris moves away from a major area of influence we can get enormous variation in dress styles. When it moves into a village environment the dress can sometimes not look anything like the dress that we find in the nearest major town, city or kraton.

Then we get the opinions.

At Candi Panataran near Blitar in East Jawa, there is a relief carving of a man with a keris, and the scabbard of that keris looks exactly like the type of scabbard that we recognise as Bugis now. The keris spread from Jawa to other places, so what did 14th century Javanese scabbards look like?

Yep, copying.

I totally agree with you Alan. Creativity can go a long way it seems. Below is a picture of a statue that our fellow forumite Gustav uploaded a while ago.

I had forgotten the origin/age of this statue, (can Gustav or other forumite please help me on the origin of this one?) do you think the warangka relief at candi Panataran matches this warangka type Alan? This one looks like it is a sheath for keris buda. Even the top of the gonjo can be seen.

It's in Museum Nasional in Jakarta, attributed to 15. cent. The proportions of the statue are quite cobby (especially the upper part of body), so it doesn't necessarily tell us about about the true proportions of Keris also. The sheath already looks similar to some older sheaths from European "Kunstkammer" collections.

I would hesitate to guess what might be in it Rasdan. It is probably not a photographic representation, and as Gustav has said, it does have some features that echo early scabbards in European collections.

Here are another couple, ladrangans this time, from Candi Sukuh.

Thank you Gustav and Alan. If the statue in the National Museum is also 15th century we cannot possibly be looking at buda keris on that statue. Another thing that interests me with that one is the selut that it used. Very similar with the ones we see in old bugis keris style.

It is very interesting to see that ladrangan style is already around in Candi Sukuh (15th century I think). I always have thought that ladrangan is a more recent style.

Rasdan, I don't think that we can say whether or not the keris in the scabbard on that statue is Buda, however, the fact that it is a 15th century statue does not automatically rule out the form of the keris.

Yes, we refer to keris that we believe came from Pre-Islamic Jawa as "Keris Buda", but that does not mean that Keris Buda were never made and used in later eras. Even Mpu Pauzan made a few keris Buda, and lesser current era makers have also produced them. Similarly, Islam did not just automatically dominate Jawa after the collapse of Majapahit, it took a long time to get almost total domination. Even today, that domination is not complete, the people of the Tengger still cling to the old Pre-Islamic traditions, in fact in some ways the Tengger traditions reflect very early indigenous beliefs.We also have the Badui of Sunda.

Then there is the artistic dictate that the carver may have used an earlier style to reflect what the rest of the subject depicted.

The keris in the scabbard might be a KB, or might not, but we cannot even guess what the carver had in mind, based upon what we can see

Thanks Alan, I just remembered that you had mentioned somewhere about this. Keris buda that were made after the pre-Islamic times and still produced at current time.

Unlike other talismanic items that are still made to be talismanic, I think current keris Buda were made for the collectors market with just money in mind. For what reason in your opinion that older keris buda (between early Islamic and before keris collectors exists - which is another interesting topic) were made for?

Not really for the collector market Rasdan, at least, not in the way that we now think about collecting. People at the top of the tree in Solo from the 1970's through to the not so distant past held the opinion that keris which were made in the style of earlier periods were made as a token of respect to the makers of the past. Thus, a keris of say, Mojo style could be made during the Pajang era, not as an attempt to create a forgery, but as a token of respect to a previous maker.

Pauzan made a number of keris in styles from past eras --- KB's, betoks, Matarams --- it was never an attempt to deceive, it was always homage to past, and also to demonstrate his skill. I even made one keris in a past style, and using material that would place it as a past style. I did this just to show that I could do it.

At the present time some of the most artistic keris of the current era have been made in the KB style.

In respect of the idea "before collectors exist", I just don't know when that might be where keris are concerned. Bear in mind, Javanese noble men had very limited ways in which to store wealth. One of the acceptable ways was to store wealth in keris, this is probably the foundation stone of the Solonese tangguh system. Keris collecting and collectors have been around for a very long time.

If I may interrupt Rasdan and Alan's very interesting discussion for a moment, let me show the latest pic of my nearly completed project. What comes to my mind is the following: WYSIWYG = What you see is what you get. It pertains to me, as I cannot at this stage effect any more big changes, and it pertains to the longsuffering forum members who have accompanied me on this "trip", as this wrongko might be disappointing and did not rise to the high expectations you might have had. But if I may say boldly, the wrongko actually looks better than in this poor photograph.

The four pins plus Alan's suggestion has made this epoxied joint very strong and I had no fear of it breaking as I sanded. What now needs to be done, is the application of the varnish. That is to say, if it is your suggestion that I varnish this wood. I recall reading that a Bugis wrongko should be stained red and then varnished (if I recall correctly). If you have more or other advice for me, please let it come. I await your kind final inputs. (Some of the pictures of wrongkos I saw seemed to be oiled or waxed.)

I think shellac will give you a nicer finish.

Hello Johan,

That doesn't look bad at all! Certainly not a perfect copy and with some shortcomings for traditionally minded connoisseurs. More than adequate clothes for your keris though - you can certainly be proud having done this with a tough wood which seems to have quite nice figuring, too!

Traditional finish for keris is shellac (no multiple layers needed); make sure to fill the pores with wood dust during the final polishing steps!

The color is probably close to Kemuning limau (yellow kemuning wood); you could leave it as is if you prefer this color.

You could also utilize some spare bits of the same wood for testing whether using boiled linseed oil first and shellac later will make both woods looking even better.

Regards,
Kai

That's actually not too bad Johan, you've got the overall form pretty good, it looks like what it is intended to be. We must never forget that even in the societies where these things came from, not everybody was a master.

Your efforts to date are good Johan.

I will offer the following:-

1) you can only have two sorts of lines:- a straight line or a part of a circle; lumps, bumps, wandering lines are definitely not permitted, and that applies to any sort of work of this nature.

2) the heavy ridge that interrupts smooth transition from the face to the top of the piece must go, the face of the wrongko from its lower edge to the top where the surface turns inward should be a smooth curve, in other words a part of a circle --- a very large circle, but a circle just the same. This "part of a circle " idea has been quoted as a dictum for as long as people have made things, but what nobody ever seems to point out is that it is really "parts of circles", for example, in a long curve you can get variation in the progression of the curve, each part of the curve can reflect a different radius, but even so, that curve must be a smooth progression, so that you cannot see the change in radius, the effect is that if the curve is extended it becomes ovoid, rather than circle. You point this out to a purist and you get told that an ovoid reflects a changing circle, or over-lapping circles. Anyway, however you look at it, curves must be smooth.

3) sanding could be taken to about 600 - 800 grit, and then the grain must be raised with steam and polished off with 0000 steel wool, until it does not raise anymore; you want a perfectly polished surface before you apply the finish. A steam iron is easy to use for the steam.

4) the traditional finish for a Javanese wrongko is french polish, usually the Javanese m'ranggis will only use a maximum of 5 or 6 coats, and then rub back with rotten stone, and finish with a particular type of rough leaf, the reason for this is that they believe too many coats detracts from the beauty of the wood grain. This might be true, because of the way they do the job, but a true french polish can enhance wood grain up to, and even beyond, a piano finish of say 16 and upwards coats. You need to apply a french polish in a figure of eight pattern.

5) I do not know what the traditional finish on Bugis and Peninsula wrongkos was. It looks like it might have been shellac, but in my experience old Bugis style wrongkos exhibit a surface that looks very like well patinated polished wood. Newer ones seem to have a pretty crude sort of varnish that sometimes lifts and leaves bare patches:- poor quality material, inexpertly applied and very ugly. OK for a row boat or outside timber, but not for cabinet work or an artisan product, and a wrongko is an artisan product.

6) if you do not want to go the full "traditional" route, Danish Oil or similar, applied with a rubber (fine cotton/linen pad filled with cotton wool) and run up to maybe five coats, polished off between coats with 00 steel wool, and final coat lightly polished off with 0000 steel wool, then waxed, will give a very, very close imitation of a nicely aged traditional finish.

A good finish to any wood is in the preparation Johan. I avoid using fillers if at all possible and use the finish material as the filler, it’s a slower process, but in my opinion gives a much superior job. Do not skimp on the preparation.

Thank you, all - you have once again given me much to ponder on. And while I ponder, it is a good hint that I use the time wisely, to carry on even further with the preparation of the wood before shellacking or oiling or whatever needs to be done. I'll practice on spare wood as you suggest.

I have already attached the little rim of the buntut, and it looks cool. Please give me a few days for completion, then I'll try to post a few really nice final pics.

(The Bugis keris seemed very satisfied with its "dress" as I slid it in. So much so that I even had to coax it gently with my thumb to get it out again!)

((Yes, yes, you're right, that's just me bragging! Well, at least the fit is good.))

Johan, Danish Oil, and similar products are not really like the old time wood finishing oils such as linseed oil. They dry hard and polymerise into a solid state. Don't think that linseed or other ordinary oils can be substituted, you have a lot of adhesive in that wrongko, it should not be exposed to the risk of oil penetration.

What I understand from this last post of yours, Alan, is that you're saying boiled linseed oil is better than Danish oil and preferable to use on this wrongko.

It so happens I have a supply of fresh boiled linseed oil and if I can use that, it saves me a lot of searching for the other products. To my knowledge boiled linseed oil is also called "London oil" and very preferable for new rifle stocks of walnut and other fine woods, in the best of stockmaking tradition.

My son and sister were dismayed to read that you want the raised edge removed, because they liked it very much! But I will have to disappoint them and sand down the ridge. Maybe I'll keep just a hint of a ridge. And the semicircular end needs to be thinned down. And the line needs to be thinned also. Me, I'm happy for these final comments and I am going to put in a few more hours.

Johan, I am saying the complete opposite:-

DO NOT USE LINSEED OIL ON THIS PIECE OF WOODWORK

I apologise if my English was unclear.

This wood is glued together, linseed oil is a penetrating oil, if it penetrates to the glued joints, particularly in the joints in the gandar, those joints are likely to separate.

Use Danish oil

do not use linseed oil

~~~~~~~~~~

I've used linseed oil, both raw and boiled, on rifle stocks, and it gives a good finish, but it will penetrate wood, depending on the type of wood, sometimes quite deeply, it must never be used on wood with glued joints.