Hi F. de Luzon,

second all comments from Kai. The wood is nice for sure, the carving well done but it would look much nicer to my eyes when it would have been done in traditional manner.

Best regards,
Detlef

Hello Kai and Detlef. I completely understand your preference for traditional design. I had this made in the style of the makers because the material used was non-traditional. I just wanted a scabbard made of kamagong (I really like this wood :)) If ever I have another scabbard made, it will be as traditional as it can get. :)

Kai, attached is the photo you requested. Thank you both for your comments!

Regards,

F. de Luzon

Re-etched #5
 

I re-etched #5 (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22242) and a pattern emerged on the core. Did I over etch? It looks almost like glitter. I wonder if this was intended by its maker.

de Luzon:

That's a very good etch that you achieved, and a very unusual pattern that emerged. It's hard to know if the creator of the blade intended it to have such an effect, but some of these guys were really talented at producing specific effects and it's quite possible that this was the intended outcome. Perhaps Roland or one of our other metallurgists can speak to the way this effect was created.

Ian.

What you see is the microcrystalline structure of the metal. It get visible by the etchant you used. By an other etchant it wouldn't be visible like this.

Best regards,
Detlef

Thanks for your comments, Ian and Detlef!

Detlef, I used white cane vinegar (sukang puti) to etch the blade. I was just trying to make the contrast stronger between the metals when the pattern emerged. I felt like I was looking at stars when I wiped off the oxidized metal because of the way it sparkled. But I was also concerned that I may have ruined the blade. Anyway, it looks so much better in person.

F. de Luzon

I agree that the etch seems perfectly ok - you often see these crystalline structures once the polish is done nicely and the etching accentuates the details of the clean metal surface.

I prefer to use industrial acetic acid because its strength is exactly known and can be diluted for routine use (more reproducible). The advantage of AA being volatile is that it can be completely removed via heating the blade and that it tends to also work on rust in crevices (it helps long-term preservation to remove all active rust). This can lead to some porosity of the blade and you start to see this with the narrow pamor band on each side. IMHO this is not a problem but I'd avoid to etch more (repolishing and re-etching are always an option if the surface gets too rough from over-etching). After a thorough oiling, you can go for sealing with microcristalline wax (which can also be used to close the larger pores if deemed preferable).

Regards,
Kai

Thanks for the tips, Kai. I will keep them in mind next time I etch a blade. Much appreciated!

Regards,

F. de Luzon

Hi F. d. Luzon,

don't worry, the outcome is very nice, the blade isn't ruined but look much better as before. It's a nice piece and you have given it the best care! :) ;)

Regards,
Detlef

Thanks Detlef!

Regards from Manila,

F. de Luzon

ANOTHER 19th century Moro Sondang -Mindano region
 

Here is another example which does not belong to me,but thought would share it for discussion
regards Rajesh

Overall length -68 cms

I'm not sure I agree with the information regarding this example.

MOP was not common until the 20th century. Also this form is a 20th century form, not a 19th century form. And then, this type of kris is made in the Sulu region and not Mindanao.

Thanks Battara
Its good to know that,i don't collect these weapons so good for my knowledge
Regards Rajesh

Agree with Jose's dating for the same reasons he gives. The kris shown by VANDOO is a mid- to late-20th C. example in Sulu dress. These are readily found in antique shops in Manila or online. Although well made and from the original culture, I suspect they are produced mainly for sale to foreigners who travel. :)

Ian.

Ian is right. I will only add that some of these recent Sulu examples may be even laminated on occasion. I know this because I bought one years ago and it was laminated. Admittedly, that was probably made in the 1960s. Pieces coming out of the region today are more often mono-steel.

I had a small, child size kris of this vintage; two stirrups, silver but undecorated w/out any engraving on the blade. Same hilt, same knot work wrap.
I posted it here but can't find the old post with the search function.

It was a very sharp blade and competently formed; I believe I sold it to Lew some years ago before he passed on.

I miss Lew. :(

Thanks for sharing, Rajesh!

Thanks for your comment Rick.

I have a kris that is smaller than the others in my collection and I've always wondered if it was a child's kris. The blade is only 17.5 inches long (44.5 cm) and the width is proportionate to the length. Below is a photo for your reference.

Please share your thoughts.

F. de Luzon:

Another nice kris. Not all small kris are necessarily children's kris. We should not forgot that some Moro women fought beside their husbands, brothers and fathers. I'm inclined to think some of these slightly shorter and slimmer versions may have been meant for women. Also, many of the older kris (pre-1800) were shorter and slimmer than those of 19th C Mindanao. I'm not suggesting that your smaller example is earlier than the 19th C, but we should not think that all short, slim kris were designed for children--they were definitely weapons and could be used as such by adults.

Attached below is an example of an 18th C. kris that is similar in length to your shorter example.

Ian.

----------------Attachment--18th C Moro kris------------------

.

What you can see there is as Detlef said the so called grain boundary: "A grain boundary is the interface between two grains, or crystallites, in a polycrystalline material. Grain boundaries are 2D defects in the crystal structure, and tend to decrease the electrical and thermal conductivity of the material."

The bigger the grains are, the lower the quality is. Every iron has this grain pattern but the graining of modern steel ist too small for human eyes.

Such big crystals as in the middle of your sword are simply a sign of low quality steel.

You should try another etchant to avoid this crystals.


Roland

Thanks for the info Roland_M!

Thanks Ian! I agree. Despite its size, this blade is equally deadly. Aside from being for women or children, another probability is that it was designed to be concealed. Moros are known to have made blades for such purpose.

Thanks also for the reference photo!

Regards,

F. de Luzon

Blade #6 To re-hilt or not to re-hilt?
 

With a blade length of 17.5 inches (44.5 cm) and the proportionate width, this kris is smaller than the others in my collection. The laminated blade has a separate gangya and is much older than the hilt. The pommel is some kind of hardened resin with a coin (American Era Philippines) dated 1944. It comes with a Maguindanao style scabbard.

Because the hilt is of low quality workmanship, I am contemplating on having it replaced. I also want a nice pommel to go with it. However, a part of me is saying to leave it as it is.

IMHO it looks fine the way it is. Changing the hilt is not needed as this would tamper with the sword's history and could even probably negatively affect the sword's balance if not done properly. Besides it looks like a kris meant for battle, with a hilt exactly meant for business so there is no need to dress it up with a different hilt.

Exactly my thoughts! :) :cool:

I have to agree - leaving it alone might be best.

I agree with the above sentiments.
That sword is a splendid example just as it is!

Agree with all opinions so far. This is a fine old warrior with an authentic hilt.

Please leave the hilt on this piece as is. If it were extremely damaged or was something non traditional put on it by a U.S. serviceman or tourist after bringing it home I would agree that changing it to a more traditional hilt would be something to consider, but that is not the case with this. I totally agree that by replacing the hilt you would be taking away an important part of this swords history.

Best,
Robert

Thank you all for your advice. I will leave the hilt as it is. I agree that this would be the wiser decision.

Kind regards to you all,

F. de Luzon

Well, i guess you don't need one more fellow collector to say please don't change anything on this kris. I frankly don't understand collecting these items from history if the end goal it not to preserve that history, but to create some idealized alternative version of what the original piece we collected actually is. I am glad you have decide to listen to the part of you that just says "No". :)

I agree David. If it were missing pieces, that would be a different story.......

# 7 Twist Core "18th Century" Kalis
 

Number 7 in the collection is this twist core "18th Century" Moro kalis/kris with a 5 luk, 47.5 cm (18.75 inches) long blade. The total length of the blade and hilt is 59 cm (23.25 inches) and the wooden pommel is of the horse hoof motif. For more pictures and discussion please click on the link- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22716

Hello Fernando,

I already commented on your newest acquisition in the dedicated thread.

Here a late comment on the earlier small one:
I believe the blade dates from the first quarter of the 20th century (give or take a few years); craftsmanship of the panday is not really great and makes it difficult to place. The clamp attachment seems typical for the upper Cota Bato region and I guess the whole hilt got replaced during WW2 or, probably, sometime later; the braiding is done correctly and the piece seems to have been in continued use. I agree with the others to keep it as is.

Regards,
Kai

Thanks for your insights Kai! Much appreciated. I have decided to keep it as is. :)

great collection
 

great collection you have there. i am curious on how you go about ethcing the whole length of the kris blade? i am planning on etching mine as well.

thank you.

Thanks Pinoy Blade Hunter!

I have a plastic drafting/drawing tube that I fill with sukang puti. It is long enough to immerse the blade up to the area near the gangya. I then brush vinegar on the exposed gangya from time to time. After a few minutes or hours (depending on the condition of the blade) I remove the blade from the tube and even out the etch by brushing more vinegar on the etch line and gangya. I then immerse it again if necessary, until I get the desired effect.

It's important that you neutralize the blade by washing it with a baking soda slurry after etching. After washing off the slurry, I use WD 40 to protect the blade. Btw, I cover the hilt with cling wrap for protection.

Kind regards,

Fernando/ F. de Luzon

Thank you very much! Just the information i need. I was wondering about the tube if i will have to make a PVC tube thing, but the tracing paper tube is much more practical and easy.

Do you have a place where you display your sword for public viewing? I would love to gaze upon that twist core piece up close. From malate manila here and i have been frequenting the antique shops in ermita lately. Drooling. Hahaha

Thanks again.
PBH

This book may be of interest to the historically inclined amongst you.