The only depiction I have seen that shows the finger over the cross, was in H. E. Davidson's book, "The Anglo-Saxon Sword"

Slightly different time and place!

(Of course, rapiers and such are used in this manner, but we all know that.)

I do have a saif, and with the extra guards, it Is very comfortable to hold in this manner, And, the area of the cross where the finger rests is worn smooth, as though I am not the first to try this hold.

Best wishes,
Richard.

It seems to be that this discussion has of course been pretty well covered over the years, and most of the idea of forefinger curled over guard is in my view a mostly 'westernized' assumption quite broadly and consistently resurfacing.
Although the use of forefinger extended around guard was indeed something often employed in western swordsmanship in some cases, hence the development of rings and 'pas d'ane' in rapiers and smallswords for protection of the exposed digit, it does not seem a normal application in standard swordsmanship.
Even though it is well known that the shield or dhal was the method of parry in eastern swordsmanship , and there was little sword to sword contact, it would be, in my opinion, very much against the grain of human nature to place a finger 'outside' the guard (whose design was to enclose or protect the hand...entirely).

In virtually all images seen here photographically, the swords are being held 'at rest' or in non combative poses. Much as the figure posing, the grip or holding of these swords seems postured, therefore no more a measure of actual technique or grip than the most often studio prop arms typically used .

While I have found considerable material noting the significant difference in size of the hands in many of the Indian ethnic groups, it does not seem a constant which would necessarily dictate the proportion of an entire weapon form, with some variation of course possible.

The downturned quillons on many saif (Moroccan, nimcha)as well, became vestigial, just as on the kastane of Sri Lanka and other forms we can certainly note. In Europe, the pas d'ane rings became entirely vestigial on court swords and smallswords .

Salaams Jim, Your well thought through summary is as always well received...and I have thought long and hard...about the Tulvar and the grip using the index finger over the guard. I still think the advantage of looping the finger when in the seated position as in the picture gives a faster draw and in the case of the downward strike is less likely to result in damage to the finger whilst increasing the power.

I was trawling through the web looking at Viking Swords and copied this from http://www.peterjohnsson.com/the-soborg-sword/...Quote "The dynamic properties of the Søborg sword". The positions of the pivot points in grip and blade is an effect of the rotational inertia of the weapon. Distribution of mass affect the dynamic balance of the sword: it determines how will want to behave in motion. The placing of the node of no vibration in the hilt close to and sightly overlapping the cross suggests that it was sometimes used with the index finger wrapped around the guard (this is also seen in period art of men at arms with swords in their hands). Grasping the sword this way would maximize the effect of the dynamic properties of the weapon and provide good control of the direction of the edge in a cut".Unquote.

I thought this was perhaps relevant...and gives some history as to where this looped digit comes from...conceptually at least.

Whilst I am in total agreement with the summary I also point out that the Quillons on the Kastane are not actually Quillons though they look like them they belong to a religious construction from the Iconic crown or Vajra....best viewed in a hugely diverse number of objects at https://www.google.com/search?q=vajr...IVAbgUCh2a-wSA

I don't believe the Kastane Quillons became or developed into functionless things but that they had no function other than a religious construct from the start.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Hi all!

My old master hold a tulwar with the only normal way: without any Indian "mudra" or the figures of the fingers ))
And his grandfather took their art from ascetic-warriors. So I think it is really correct way. The explanation of it I put here:
http://indianfight.com/indian-technique-with-a-sword/
and here
http://indianfight.com/tulwar/