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My Experience...
It has been my experience in collecting that:
1. I start collecting… 2. It starts to catch on… the “I want one too” factor. 3. More become available, but the prices start to go up. 4. Reproductions find their way into the market place. 5. Prices end up “through the roof,” it becomes difficult to find good stuff. 6. Reproduction are good or better than the originals. 7. Its time to change fields for what I collect because of the fakes and the super high prices. I have “cycled” through WWI, WWII, Vietnam and Soviet period militaria. I believe you will all find the above “cycle” has been true for all of these. Personally, I believe it will also be true for edged weapons. Dig in and hold on. You will not see this stuff again. If the prices go down (yea right), I am sure there are a number of us that will be happy to pick them up from you. :D :D :D |
If we want to continue to generate interest in our hobby we have to work on getting information out into the public. Unfortunately, there are very few venues dedicated to ethnographic weapon. Every so often we see a stray magazine article, and there are usually a few examples described in a dozen or so words scattered around major museums. But, we do not have a systematic voice, nor a media mechanism which would be attractive to non-collectors.
This is an example of what we should try to pull together. http://www.museumofwebism.com/3DGalleryTest/index.htm Imagine a virtual museum dedicated to the study of ethnographic weapons that can be accessible to collectors all around the net and which is populated with many thousands of examples cataloged into dozens of exhibition halls. Such would be the new Stone glossary for the 21th century. Perhaps we should build such a thing and call it the Cameron Stone Museum of Ethnographic Weapondry in his honor. n2s |
Tell me again exactly why i might want to generate interest in others in my hobby? Frankly i find there is quite enough competition for the weapons i collect. There will always be a percentage of the population with an interest in antique edged weapons, it is a part of our human nature to study such things. I don't think we need to create the interest or attempt to turm non-collectors into collectors. Personally, i don't collect keris as a monetary investment (ssshhh! that's not what i tell the wife! ;) ), but for my own personal enjoyment, study and (hopefully) understanding. Sure, it's nice to share in discussion and debate (thank you very much Vikingsword) and if i had children i am sure i would try to interest them in my passion. From time to time i encounter a friend who shares my interest. I think that as i age i will continue to encounter interested younger parties that i feel understand the keris enough to properly care for them and i very possibly might pass some blades along to these folks. I don't plan to have children so the people who recieve these keris will not just be getting an inheritance that that might simply sell off, but something they will prize and want to own. When i go i might very well bequeath the bulk of my collection to a museum (but they have to promise not to paint those little white numbers on them :D ).
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For another; from shared experience comes shared learning. There is much we wish that we knew which will never come to light unless we have the ability to study a great many examples. While a virtual museum is not like having the items at hand; we can learn quite a bit to help us better date and catagorize these items. If we have a dozen sword which are similar enough to deduce that they were likely made by the same hands, and one turns up with a pedegree, then the whole lot benefits from that shared piece of infomation. (btw - virtual museums will probably never ask you to add those little white numbers :rolleyes: ) n2s |
n2s, i certainly wasn't arguing against your virtual museum idea, though i don't believe it will create new collectors or inform anyone who might choose to turn some keris into a "nice set of tent pegs". :eek: Why would such people bother to look at such a site. To find things like that on the internet you need to have at least enough interest to search it out. My point is that there are and probably always will be a precentage of people interested in this subject. They will continue to collect and find ways to talk about it with others (like your proposed site). But i don't feel the need to inform Joe Beerbottle that that old knife his uncle left him is a courtier's keris from the Mataram kingdom of Java. He is uninterested, not stupid, so he doesn't throw it away, he puts it up on ebay (the worlds marketplace). To him it's old junk that somebody might want. I am fine with him continuing to see it that way. I don't feel any great need to educate him. Now Jimmy Coolkife ( :rolleyes: ) Runs across an old keris in the attic that used to belong to grandpa. Old knives interest him so he does a little internet searching. Maybe he ends up at your virtual museum (or here :) ). I am more than happy to share experience with him and help him work out what he has. But i didn't have to create his interest, it was already there. And believe me, there are quite enough interested parties out there as can be proved by the number of times i've been beat at the auction block. :D
I say start up you virtual museum and i am sure others will join. I would probably get involved myself somewhere along the line. Still, while your vitual museum might not put little white numbers on my blades, it still doesn't solve the original question of this thread, which is what will happen to my PHYSICAL collection when i go. Those were the issues i was addressing. |
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http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php And there are a few sites out there dedicated to Javanese kerises. What happens to our physical collection depends on what we do -- we can leave it to rust, stowed away in the basement, forgotten. Or we could leave it to the 'mercy' of our children. Or we could donate them to the museum. Or we could find good 'homes' for them before we get too old. :) A point I've always wanted to make is -- don't donate collections to the museum. What goes in seldom comes out (not the decent ones anyway), and no matter how well they are conserved, they are still confined to a 'storeroom' most of the time. I believe that there should good pieces out there, for the responsible and knowledgeable collectors to enjoy and care for. |
I AGREE THAT THE INTREST IS ALREADY THERE FOR YOU TO BECOME A COLLECTOR IT JUST NEEDS TO BE STIRRED BY SEEING SOMETHING COOL OR INTERESTING. IT WOULD BE SIMPLE TO INCREASE THE PRICE AND DEMAND FOR EDGED WEAPONS BUT NOT THE NUMBER OF REAL COLLECTORS. JUST HAVE A ANTIQUE ROADSHOW AND HAVE LOTS OF PEOPLE WITH SOME TYPE OF EDGED WEAPONS AND SAY THEY ALL FOUND THEM IN ATTICS, GARAGE SALES OR ESTATE SALES AND PAYED $10.00 FOR IT ,THE EXPERT THEN SAYS THIS IS A BLAH BLAH BLAH AND IS WORTH $100000.00 :eek:
THE BUY IT SELL IT GROUP WHICH VASTLY OUTNUMBER COLLECTORS WOULD SCOUR EVERY NOOK AND CRANNY IN THE COUNTRY, BIDDING WOULD GO CRAZYIER ON EBAY. THEN WOULD BE THE SMART TIME TO SELL OUT OUR COLLECTIONS BUT WHO EVER SAID A TRUE COLLECTOR WAS SMART ENOUGH TO LIKE MONEY MORE THAN HIS COLLECTION :D THE IDEA OF A VIRTUAL STONES GLOSSARY IS A GOOD ONE AND WAS BROUGHT UP IN THE OLD FORUM POSTS IT MAY HAVE BEEN ONE I STARTED EARLY ON IF YOU WANT TO FIND IT USING THE SEARCH FUNCTION. I THINK CONOGRE WAS GATHERING PICTURES AND INFORMATION ALSO. THERE IS ENOUGH INFORMATION HERE IN THE VIKINGSWORD POSTS TO COMPILE QUITE A LARGE GLOSSARY IF SOMEONE WOULD TAKE ON THE MONUMENTAL TASK OF ORGANIZING IT. THE MEMBERS HERE COULD ALSO ADD MORE TO IT IF NECESSARY I HAVE BEEN COLLECTING INFORMATION FOR YEARS AND AM SURE OTHERS HAVE AS WELL. LARGE DEALERS LIKE ORIENTAL ARMS ARE SURE TO HAVE MORE REFRENCES AND KNOWLEGE THAN ONE WHO JUST COLLECTS, SO THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO SUPPLY SOME INFORMATION AS TIME WOULD PERMIT. THE BIG ADVANTAGE OF THE INTERNET FORMAT OVER A BOOK IS THAT YOU CAN CONTINUE TO ADD TO THE INFORMATION AND ALSO CORRECT ANY MISTAKES IF BETTER INFORMATION COMES ALONG LATER. |
For better Or Worse
I'm fairly convinced that this forum itself is a contributing force to driving up prices in most antique weapon selling venues .
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Move along, nothing to see here... :D
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In, the interest of protecting advantageous pricing, this forum should be re-focus to the discussion of ethnographic toilet seats.
http://i9.ebayimg.com/04/i/06/67/7a/31_12.JPG Now here we have a fine 19th century example from New England..... :eek: n2s |
n2s
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I was drinking coffee ........... :eek: You owe me a new keyboard . |
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Now That We've Had Our Giggles ....
How does this bill currently before my state legislators strike you ?
http://www.mass.gov/legis/bills/senate/st01/st01384.htm Hmmm ? |
I am a collector to so please do not get me wrong but to brazenly sport weapons in a civilised urban environment you deserve all the trouble you get. I do not go shopping for bread and milk brandishing a Khyber knife and I do not make my home at night with my parang. The bill does not outlaw the possession of a machete it just requires the appropriate common sense about the use and display in public. This is something we collectors usually do naturally and we are unlikely to feel the force of the law. Unfortunately there have been headline grabbing incidents where idiots cause problems. I can think of parallels in other aspects of society but they get away with it. Tim
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Chip , chip , chip ............
I see nothing in the bill relating to brazenly sporting weapons . I do see a wide open definition of 'machete' . I also see an attempt to register a bladed device . Not to mention of course a ahem , yearly *registration fee* . |
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Do not get me wrong: I am a collector and this is my passion. I collect for myself and not for my ungrateful grandchildren. I do not do it for investment purposes but just for my own joy, for the love of history and for the pure pleasure of posessing the most beautiful objects of art I know. Nothing will change my attitude. It is just the times are a'changing.... Hope I am wrong!!! |
I think some of you may have a flawed perception of kids. :) A 10-year old will not differentiate between the different styles of weapons and may prefer high-tech toys. A 12-18-year old will be attracted to swords due to media, as Valjhun said, but any interest will be fleeting as they have no money to sustain it. The 18+ year old has the ability to start collecting on his own and a good number of such youths will and do take up this activity. I got my first toy sword at 12. At 19 I got a modern repro of a medieval sword and a fanciful "kris sabre" unlike any true keris/kris. These got me wishing for the real thing and ebay became the incarnation of Santa. This wonderful forum and its members did the rest. "Kids" will always be attracted by the "real sword", and as soon as they'll have money and responsability, young people will start collecting. Education will ultimately refine this collection, and develop the love of history and culture.
Sword collecting may undergo waves of interest and deglect, but it will not die out. "Kids" may not know what to do with pointy weapons in this day of age, but young people do. The legislation and registration business is indeed disconcerting :eek: but hopefully the powers that be will be made to realize their madness and cease this nonsense. |
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Ariel, The practical value of our objects is home and office decoration. And there will always be people with our incomparable taste. Someone might like the top artist sculptures and painting, others like us, like beautiful historic objects. At the top level, just compare Picasso to the japanese smith Masamune. I guess that there is more people that love Picasso today, but tomorrow? Personally I fail to attribute any beauty to Picasso, but that's an opinion. The fact is that looking from the most logical mind, where do you find more importancy? In a katana that was forged by a THE smith, regarded as the best cutting device ever, wich spilled the blood of many courageus men, wich is per se an object of exrtreme beauty, or an outrageus ugly piece of canvas wich was made by an semi-crazy sifillistic idle man? Well that's an extrem, I'm only trying to say that a antique arm has no less practical value that other objects of art... |
Another angle, if society is to assume civilisation, culture and indeed wealth continues on a upward curved graph line then with most of the artifacts we collect particularly the really "ethnic" stuff will become more and more objects from another world. People will never loose the fascination for these things. Just look at the demand for repro stuff of various qualities, often the same price and not infrequently a lot more than the real thing. Tim
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