Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   Thouma Jambiya by BOUSANI (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15710)

spiral 25th June 2012 04:50 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Many thanks Dom!

Yes Ibrahiim , Ive seen that stamp, is it applied on a seperate piece of metal? I dont know if thats common in Yemeni jewelry , but in many countries it how stamps are "moved" from one peice of jewelry to another to give fake provinance.

So the Muslim one we can discount for this discusian.

Here a picture showing the front of the chape carrying the same mark as yours Khanjar.

I have clipped it down in size as it is still currently for sale. {Unfortuanatly its hilt is very sad one. :( }

Spiral

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 25th June 2012 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral
Many thanks Dom!

Yes Ibrahiim , Ive seen that stamp, is it applied on a seperate piece of metal? I dont know if thats common in Yemeni jewelry , but in many countries it how stamps are "moved" from one peice of jewelry to another to give fake provinance.

So the Muslim one we can discount for this discusian.

Here a picture showing the front of the chape carrying the same mark as yours Khanjar.

I have clipped it down in size as it is still currently for sale. {Unfortuanatly its hilt is very sad one. :( }

Spiral


Salaams spiral. This is great support work and thanks to Dom.. :) What seems to be confirmed is the same stamp on a girth belt buckle at #1 and a stamp on a separate scabbard plate from a different Thouma shown. I think the Islamic stamp on the jewellery is worth noting (it is excellent to have stamps looked at from the region and well worth cataloging.) but may be sidelined from this debate since the major probe is on Jewish-Yemeni work.

I remind Forum that the rectangular plate at # 1 is older than the other furniture on the weapon and that as yet no ID has been received(yet) of other stamps on the #1 item. In addition questions on authenticity of hilt (and hilt adornment) and blade remain placing pressure on the likelihood of this being all of one workshops namely the House of Baws and pre 1949, though, frankly the thread moves on and hopefully can address other issues concerning Jewish-Yemeni craftsmanship, style and stamp recognition.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 26th June 2012 05:24 PM

Salaams, Forum Library note : see https://organicafricanredtea.com/ima...n_jewel_en.pdf for an outstanding reference on Jewish-Yemeni craftsmanship and a lot more. :shrug:
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

spiral 26th June 2012 10:40 PM

mmmm.... I didnt link to that one Ibrahiim as thats where the stamp I posted earliercame from, identified as clearly Muslim by Dom ... Which means pdf.material isnt 100% reliable... Its not all Yeminite Jewish work after all.

Great pics & fascinating history though!

Glad you can get the article on the marks now, It may be an interesting piece...

Spiral

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 27th June 2012 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral
mmmm.... I didnt link to that one Ibrahiim as thats where the stamp I posted earliercame from, identified as clearly Muslim by Dom ... Which means pdf.material isnt 100% reliable... Its not all Yeminite Jewish work after all.

Great pics & fascinating history though!

Glad you can get the article on the marks now, It may be an interesting piece...

Spiral


Salaams Spiral ~ Ah yes I see that now... I normally trawl web pages as far back as about page 6 then give up ! In this case a useful search . I think there may well be corrupted stamps but at least we can then advance the library understanding since we would then be considering known stamp marks and known style and who knows in the furure we can identify such copies as spurious... I don't have the reference though its cheap enough I will get it eventually !
It opens the door to further detective work and hopefully a forum catalogue of Jewish-Yemeni silver stamps.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 3rd July 2012 06:45 PM

Salaams,
Note to Library The thread appears to have ground to a halt ~ Does that mean # 1 will not be modified to read, in a balanced way, what it is known to have as original House of Baws parts or whatever the stamp is on the girth buckle whilst other parts may have been added later? :shrug:
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

kahnjar1 4th July 2012 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Salaams,
Note to Library The thread appears to have ground to a halt ~ Does that mean # 1 will not be modified to read, in a balanced way, what it is known to have as original House of Baws parts or whatever the stamp is on the girth buckle whilst other parts may have been added later? :shrug:
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

............If you check #23 this question has been answered with the only information I have. Make from this what you will................... :confused:

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 4th July 2012 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1
............If you check #23 this question has been answered with the only information I have. Make from this what you will................... :confused:


Salaams kahnjar1 In the absence of further information from your side and though we would expect some enlightenment from you since you hold the item, we don't ~Your wish is my command ~

"Whilst you wouldn't come right out and agree that its a fake you would agree that its not 100 % genuine House of Baws... in fact only the girth buckle may be... the rest could be add ons". :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

kahnjar1 4th July 2012 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Salaams kahnjar1 In the absence of further information from your side and though we would expect some enlightenment from you since you hold the item, we don't ~Your wish is my command ~

"Whilst you wouldn't come right out and agree that its a fake you would agree that its not 100 % genuine House of Baws... in fact only the girth buckle may be... the rest could be add ons". :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Quite frankly I don't know what else you expect me to say. I have given you, and the rest who have replied here, all the information I have.
I find your suggestion that this is a fake quite insulting, but then I would expect nothing less from one who is in the business of making copies. :mad:
I do not intend to reply further to your ridiculous comments.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 5th July 2012 03:19 PM

Fake or Copy...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1
Quite frankly I don't know what else you expect me to say. I have given you, and the rest who have replied here, all the information I have.
I find your suggestion that this is a fake quite insulting, but then I would expect nothing less from one who is in the business of making copies. :mad:
I do not intend to reply further to your ridiculous comments.


Salaams kahnjar1 Might that be your final word on the matter of the supposed House of Baws Thoumah or can we expect some in depth research proving the provenance one way or the other? You should, perhaps, learn to write without emotion since sending posts that implode on impact like custard pies is hardly the level of expertise we require for serious input.. Anyway so having chucked your toys out of the pram we assume you have given up trying to float this as "the genuine article" but would agree on certain interesting aspects of the project as being genuine though not the 100% for which it was initially attributed.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 6th July 2012 06:35 PM

The Copy.
 
Salaams Note for Library.

The term "copy" raises its head now and again and I would like to address the situation regarding copying in the world of Omani Khanjars (and no doubt the same situation exists in most other related regional issues) and other tribal accessories such as Islamic silver. To that end I am opening a post to cover that important lesson see "The Omani Khanjar" for that detail. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi


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