Ethnographic Arms & Armour
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Ethnographic Arms & Armour (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/index.php)
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-   -   Recently made Omani Kattara / Saif (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15251)

David 25th March 2012 12:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Salaams David ~ In some ways you are right except of course that the sword never went into battle as it is only a dancing sword...
No Ibrahiim, i am completely right. The point of my post is just that, to support that assertion... :)

David 25th March 2012 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kahnjar1
Call it what you like, but my point was that in future years, if this REPLICA surfaces for resale, the future buyer could well be duped if the seller suggests that this is a RARE ORIGINAL ROYAL HILTED SWORD or suchlike and ends up paying huge amounts of money for something which is nothing more than a FAKE. :mad: I think by now we all know how good your workshop is at turning out modern made items, so all I am trying to do is safeguard the collectors of the future.
This was also my point with my other post. There is certainly a danger that the originality of this blade might well be misrepresented to some future buyer.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 25th March 2012 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David
This was also my point with my other post. There is certainly a danger that the originality of this blade might well be misrepresented to some future buyer.
Salaams David~ Iconization of swords has been going on here for generations. It doesnt subtract from the value at all. In fact it enhances it.

Imagine you are in Zanzibar 150 years ago and someone hands you a blade... a European blade ... and you want it mounted on a Zanzibari hilt... as a Zanzibari Nimcha...Not a problem. The same today with Old Omani Battle Swords if I want to Iconize the sword so it looks the business at eids, weddings or VIP meetings; The blade goes to workshops and the hilt is either silver wrapped and adorned or removed and a Royal Hilt is placed retaining the original as stated etc... Just iconizing a blade in the handed down living historical process that is Omani Tradition. As I said I'm not selling it.. so its an Heirloom. Thankyou for your post .. :)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 25th March 2012 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kahnjar1
Call it what you like, but my point was that in future years, if this REPLICA surfaces for resale, the future buyer could well be duped if the seller suggests that this is a RARE ORIGINAL ROYAL HILTED SWORD or suchlike and ends up paying huge amounts of money for something which is nothing more than a FAKE. :mad: I think by now we all know how good your workshop is at turning out modern made items, so all I am trying to do is safeguard the collectors of the future.
Salaams kahnjar1,
No such thing as a rare original royal hilt unless you are refering to the one in the museum ~ Like the Royal Hilted Khanjars there is nothing particularly rare about a Royal Hilt... anyone can wear one.. Its traditional, accepted and ongoing.

I expect people will still be Iconizing Khanjars and hilts of swords for hundreds of years here.. That is the Omani way... "The tradition" is alive and well. If you can grasp that perhaps you will be closer to understanding Oman.

If a new piece is added as a replacement on one of my items for example a Khanjar or Sword which has no hilt or the scabbard dissappeared 50 years ago or the silver is incomplete; We restore to as close to perfection as we can. As you know Khanjars are for ever being altered and changed for better blades etc in an upgrading process that goes back centuries.. The same with swords whose hilts often fall apart or the silver becomes battered damaged or lost... see Kattara for comments . I have just posted a fantastic dancing sword whose scabbard is in need of redoing... New silver toe and furniture needed.

In the case of an heirloom piece or a gift or an item for a client the work is recorded, photographed and certificated as it is restored so that there is always a historical account of what we did... and of course it must always be sympathetically carried out and reversible. Thats what we do.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

kahnjar1 25th March 2012 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Salaams kahnjar1,
No such thing as a rare original royal hilt unless you are refering to the one in the museum ~ Like the Royal Hilted Khanjars there is nothing particularly rare about a Royal Hilt... anyone can wear one.. Its traditional, accepted and ongoing.

I expect people will still be Iconizing Khanjars and hilts of swords for hundreds of years here.. That is the Omani way... "The tradition" is alive and well. If you can grasp that perhaps you will be closer to understanding Oman.

If a new piece is added as a replacement on one of my items for example a Khanjar or Sword which has no hilt or the scabbard dissappeared 50 years ago or the silver is incomplete; We restore to as close to perfection as we can. As you know Khanjars are for ever being altered and changed for better blades etc in an upgrading process that goes back centuries.. The same with swords whose hilts often fall apart or the silver becomes battered damaged or lost... see Kattara for comments . I have just posted a fantastic dancing sword whose scabbard is in need of redoing... New silver toe and furniture needed.

In the case of an heirloom piece or a gift or an item for a client the work is recorded, photographed and certificated as it is restored so that there is always a historical account of what we did... and of course it must always be sympathetically carried out and reversible. Thats what we do.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
If you read my post properly you will see that I am not suggesting there is such a thing as a RARE ORIGINAL ROYAL HILTED SWORD, but simply using that term as an example of how someone may describe your REPLICA in the future to try and sell it.
My point all along has been that a "major rebuilt" or creation of a potentially RARE and EXPENSIVE item,(and I am not talking restoration here), should be marked in some way to state that it is NOT ORIGINAL. :(

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 25th March 2012 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kahnjar1
If you read my post properly you will see that I am not suggesting there is such a thing as a RARE ORIGINAL ROYAL HILTED SWORD, but simply using that term as an example of how someone may describe your REPLICA in the future to try and sell it.
My point all along has been that a "major rebuilt" or creation of a potentially RARE and EXPENSIVE item,(and I am not talking restoration here), should be marked in some way to state that it is NOT ORIGINAL. :(
Salaams kahnjar1~ I dont have any replicas..I have read your post... It is incorrect to suggest replica. We only restore professionally. :) Most decent swords here in Oman eventually get a rebuilt scabbard and most decent Khanjars have some changes in their lives. (Most of its parts are interchangeable.)

You may have failed to understand the nature of artefacts that are in full use here every day like Khanjars and used scores of times per annum in the case of Pageantry Swords... and Iconized Weapons. They or parts of them wear out or get damaged...Perhaps if you read a few books on the subject it will enhance your knowledge. :)

I am talking about restoration and Iconization which is the traditional, accepted, historical, respected, endorsement of a weapon by upgrading it to VIP Status... This is a living, breathing, historical function not a dead art... We do Iconization of swords in Oman today... and will do for many years. The job is carefully done so as not to change the original format and so that it may, if required, be returned to status later with certification and photos. You appear to misunderstand the basic facts. (Again); Not Replica. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

kahnjar1 26th March 2012 04:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Salaams kahnjar1~ I dont have any replicas..I have read your post... It is incorrect to suggest replica. We only restore professionally. :) Most decent swords here in Oman eventually get a rebuilt scabbard and most decent Khanjars have some changes in their lives. (Most of its parts are interchangeable.)

You may have failed to understand the nature of artefacts that are in full use here every day like Khanjars and used scores of times per annum in the case of Pageantry Swords... and Iconized Weapons. They or parts of them wear out or get damaged...Perhaps if you read a few books on the subject it will enhance your knowledge. :)

I am talking about restoration and Iconization which is the traditional, accepted, historical, respected, endorsement of a weapon by upgrading it to VIP Status... This is a living, breathing, historical function not a dead art... We do Iconization of swords in Oman today... and will do for many years. The job is carefully done so as not to change the original format and so that it may, if required, be returned to status later with certification and photos. You appear to misunderstand the basic facts. (Again); Not Replica. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
..I give up. You seem not to want to understand what I am trying to say.... :(

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 26th March 2012 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kahnjar1
..I give up. You seem not to want to understand what I am trying to say.... :(
I give up because you cannot understand. :shrug:


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