yes, and I did it after his "friendly tackle" :p
I explained my position after his terse question " :) "Yes but why" ;) "
may be he doesn't found time to do it ... :shrug:
because he doesn't answer yet
as all that it's for fun ... it's not important :D

à +

Dom

hello guys
North Africa, wrong way.
Only time fantasizing.
Blade shape. = Working Knife
Handle, I've seen several of these type of knife, never with a wooden handle, always ivory , why? there is no wood in this region? why never with horn handle?
Ivory handle. = There is a lot of ivory there. or ivory as a symbol?
Sheath, a part of the handle is in it, which occurs in many Knife by nomadic tribes so that the knife never get lost.
Why a second leather, on a leather sheath?
Sheath with belt loop = there are trousers worn with a belt or jacket with a belt?
South Asia, no, there are dresses tied with a sash.
These are just thoughts! smile.
gruss chregu

Hi there :cool:

There are many aspects to work with what everyone has written to help us all with yes and no... "but why" should always be asked...it is not much longer than a no, but without "but why" there is no learning :rolleyes: I have quantified through following posts aspects for consideration both in Algeria & North Africa, SEA and Central Asia with both words and images :rolleyes:
....without rewriting everything, all views from all people help but things together and in context, is it fun :p

One must not forget colonial powers within any region and cutlery made for their tastes by native hands rather than keeping our minds eye native styles used by native people...could be Pakistan for all I know but offering information right or wrong and offering similarities and accuracies for thought may cloud but it also helps in the big picture.

Chegru, great to see further working deductions...no North Africa...do you dismiss Africa totally? I still feel with a qualified "in me bones" Africa.... :D Northern too :p
The finish to the steel blade, although I am not a blacksmith, this "rough" slag like finish I have seen often in daggers from Albacete....perhaps others have seen the finish elsewhere too :shrug:

All for now :confused:

Please provide an image :shrug:

The same suspension arrangement is seen on the knife at the bottom post number 35 :shrug: Also the Turkish knife of similar construction in post 16 :shrug: I am sure countless other types of knife too.... :confused:

Edit; Thanks for the update with images, certainly only one of the Kukri sheaths are suspended in this manner of the knife in question, the others are not....can't help but remember my sold item stock s117, it is frog suspended, not stictched to the body of the sheath....credits or asking permission to use copyright images would be appreciated.... :)

Gav

I notice that one side of the blade is "raw". You still can see all the surface asperities caused by the forging process. This is fashionable these days, but it wasn't in the ancient times. So it must be a rather common working knife and the one who did it didn't pay much attention to the aesthetics aspects.
There are some bends on the edge and the tip. I may be wrong but it doesn't seem to me to be made of a good quality steel. This leads me to the same conclusion : must have been a rather "common" knife. Could also be some tourist craft.

My thoughts too Delor as this is the 4th of this style I have seen in the last few years...I know Bonhams listed one a while back too....

Gav

Hello All,

I dont think has any relation to north African knives. The Bu Saadi knives are defined mainly by the blade which is generally decorated with brass and colours. The scabbard is different aswell.

I think it looks more like asian items as Emanuel said!

North Africa is a big place;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Africa

My apologies for uploading pictures from Google Images without visiting the website of those images indexed by Google to ask their copyright owner permission to use them on a public forum. :)

:rolleyes: Tis ok, thank you :)

When I hold the knife, i'm quite sure it's not a tourist's knife, it feels well made, solid and just to good for that purpose.
Today I reshaped one of the bends on the blade. It doesn't feel soft, IMO medium.
Best
Henrik

I don't think "tourist" is correct either. These are of a type, to me eye colonialist influenced solid utility knives...origins unknown :)

Yes . The decorative motifs seem to be remarkably much like the Afghani knife you have recently posted on the 'Choora' thread.

I just found one more feature, that I missed in the first place.... This is only on the stamped side of the blade...

That features a rivet, the bolster isnt truly integral, ill post a kukri & some Karda in a few days that show some very similar features.

I think its NWF to Veitnam on horzontal travel, Southern China to southern Burma or Thailand on the vertical.

My real guess is Bengal/Assam/ Northen Burma....... small diameter ivory is Common , steel is at a preimium.

But nothing that makes the fat lady sing..... ;)

Spiral

Thank you, Ibrahim and Jim, for your welcoming replies to my previous post.

This may put the cat amongst the pigeons. The materials, construction and decorative motifs are all the same as Henrik's original dagger, but the style certainly isn't. I don't know where it's from either, my gut feeling is Nepal or Afghanistan. I suspect the stamps on the blade will be the feature that will eventually identify the origin. To me they seem very distinctive, and very, very, heavily struck. I wonder if anyone has seen them on any other metalwork. BTW, this is a hefty piece, 17" long overall.

I seem to remember something similar once being described in an auction catalogue as Swahili Arab, but I can't remember any evidence for this.

I thought my previous photo's s bit OTT so I've tried to scale these back a bit.

Regards
Richard

Hi Richard.
That's very interesting ! Thanks for posting. There's no doubt that your piece and mine is from the same region !
But where is that :confused:
Best
Henrik

hello together
We are getting slowly closer! smile
definitely the same area! but no idea where.

There are similarities here;

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14832

I also have found some other images to share later.

Gav

The later update....

The knife, although it has no bolster, is a warthog tusk, simple blade and red and black circle work. The pistol shares a butt with a similar style to the knife seen in post 56?...it appears North African...

I think the direction of thought can move back to Africa proper.

I still have a feeling/memory of North Africa, not saying itis right or wrong.
Perhaps, if these were north African, the Kaskara blade in the thread came by way of northern trade...fanciful but not beyond the realm of plausability.

Gav

Thought I'd add another chopper, originally posted by Tim in his thread. The pictures are from Field Service Antiques. This chopper is clearly from the same region as the knives in question. FSA had labelled it as a 19th century sacrificial sword - ram dao from north India, possibly Assam. The validity of this ID remains to be confirmed...The hilt does bring Burmese treatment to mind so perhaps not too far off.

Emanuel

so once again, to refresh this topic!
I found the note on the internet, knife from Burma.
website of a dealer who sells a similar piece.

Thank you Chregu,
Assuming it is not against the rules could you please post directions to the website, so we can check the reference. I'm not saying the dealer is wrong, but there have been so many disparate suggestions as to the origin of these knives I'd like to know why he says it is Burmese.
Best wishes
Richard

References certainly would add weight to any webpage description...even Bonhams has had these listed as African in the past....but without references....

Looking at the knife in question, the plain side does not look "unworked" to me, it looks delaminated. In other words damage, perhaps from rust, perhaps acid used to clean it in the past, perhaps poor welds/slag inclusions etc, failing.

can not find the page!
But I did not say that it definitely is Burma, there was no proof!
for me it is only a hint to look in that direction!
I've said in the beginning, the resemblance to a Dha is big.
greeting Chregu

I've seen this type of knife a few times over the years. The construction of the knife itself, and of the sheath, also the decoration, make me clearly feel they are from the northern part of the Indian sub-continent.

Thank you Chegru, I understand. I can see a resemblance to a dha of Henrik's knife, but I'm not sure about mine. But I agree, it is worth investigating.

David R. The blade on my knife, and I think Henrik's, is not so much "unworked" as poorly finished, still showing file marks, and yes the steeel is of poor quality, showing signs of incipient lamination etc.

Colin. I have recently seen a bronze bowl with this dot and circle decoration and with an inscription in what I think is devanagari. I thought this was probably Nepali. Is this what you had in mind when you said "north indian"?
But then I suppose it could have been a Burmese bowl.

Regards
Richard

Look at the first couple of knives in the "Knives and daggers - African" section of this website.
These knives are described as "North African."
However, the descriptions on this site do seem to be a bit general and I 'm not sure all are correct.
Regards
Richard

Funny :)
In the search for reference on an other knife I found two that is most likely from the same area as this one....

http://akaalarms.com/sold-huge-ivory...tan-ref-10162/

http://www.google.dk/imgres?sa=X&hl=...:0&tx=88&ty=94

Especially the last one, with the circles on the back of the hilt and at the end.

Both dealers claims that these are from North West India or Afghanistan....

Sometimes I think these references or attributions go round in circles, and, forgive me if I offend the dealers in the forum, but they do need an attribution. It must be a lot harder to sell on the basis of "I don't know".
So far the only positive claim I know of to have seen these in situ is "Blacksmith" in this thread.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=maure

Regards
Richard

oops