As I said Jonathan, start up new threads about about Gurkhas in the ABC carring Mk1 and Mk2 kukri, and a seperate thread about about so called double inspection marks on Mk1 kukri, I'll be happy to debate those subjects on the new threads.

As for Peter Prentices kukri, no problem answering that on the Part two section, providing you give an answer on there (which I noticed you avoided even on this thread) about the Mk1 2/8th kukri from WW1? or don't you have an answer for it Jonathan?

Simon this is not your own little forum that you own & moderate, this is a ethnographic arms forum, you niether own or moderate here, so you cant play god & decide who posts what & where & to dictate such to myself when all the information is already in this thread. I know you dont like it when your not in charge but on this forum your not. Thats why I left your forum years ago. Numerous argumentative posts between us is bad enough , but to litter this forum with our deitrius through numerous threads would be innapropriate to my mind.

I will do my best to answear any questian on some particular 8th GR marked mk.1 kukri you may have? whats the questian? I cant recall the thread of hand? Also how many years old is the thread?

But first please answear all the important points I raised in my earlier posts in this thread, Ive been waiting for your repley to them. Intersting debating tactic that you then decide I must answear you first. No it doesnt work like that, you answear my points then Ill answear yours.

Thats only fair.

spiral

Jonathan the point about the 2/8th GR WW1 Mk1 were raised on post 33 amongst others, it is now post 43, and you still haven't answered the points raised, which indicates to me you are avoiding the points raised.
If you had checked Part Two, you will find I have even put a link to the thread on IKRHS about your comments on the Mk1.
To get things going on there so that the thread remains about Gurkha Rifleman carrying Private kukri pre-1947, without the obvious distractions of other subjects, I will answer on there about Peter Prentice's kukri Officer kukri, which is a whole different ball game to Rifleman's kukri.

Ok if the ABC part distracts you to much Simon, {even though you posted a small postcard photo & 1990 quote about 1941 rather than WW1 on this thread yourself for some reason?} then ignore that & lets keep on topic on this thread. I think you can manage that rather than just selecting the bits you wish to use & pretending your presenting a sound case, while ignoring the bits you dont wish to answear about private purchase kukri.

I missed your "questian" in post 33 my apogies it was hidden amongst such a rant I just passsed over it. A link would have helped. :)



{The above quote by myself is from. linky... There thats not difficult is it Simon?

My Quote from Leutenant-Colonel H.J. Huxfords Official Regimenal history
"The men had to pay for there own kukris,though the leather frogs were an ordnance supply."

Is an accurate quote, its not a blanket statement meaning evry kukri at evry time & evry place was always payed for by the inlisted men!

What makes you think its a blanket statement? After all I mentioned them making kukris out of found scrap in 1944, obviously they wernt paying for those either!

You want more free kukri knowledge from me Simon?

O Well just this time.. :rolleyes: kukri were first offcialy autherised for the 8th GR in 1881, before then they were always private purchase & carried unofficialy but obviosly sanctioned & allowed.

spiral

Well, I will read this whole thread, but my initial thought is that what official sources or leaders say about what soldiers actually do in any army in any time is close to useless/meaningless information :D Do you know soldiers? :eek: Their slaviness is over-rated. If their leaders are competent their interest in their soldiers' slaviness and standardization are more for outer show and inner unity and efficiency than for interfering with what works.
In other words, what would you expect the officials to say? The official line.

Answered ;)

interesting photo of current practises:

the closed cho on the rather chitlangi-esque khukuri of the lance naik is interesting. the details on the ones carried by the riflemen are a bit less clear.

Hello Kronck,

Certainley after WW2 the practice was very very different. When I was talikng to Lt Col. JP Cross about the W/S kukri, he remembers his men using other kukri in Jungle.
Also speaking to Captain Harding he remembers when he was an Officer, that Bandsmen kukri were chromed to smarten them, which the Gurkhas sometimes arrange themselves (often being done by the Regimental Sunar ref; GM), but he also pointed out that they were often bought and paid for by the Officers for the Bandsman, and if the kukri purchased needed to be chromed, again the Officers would often pay for that. Interstingly the kukri issued to the bandsmen at that time had had metal rings around the handle, much like Major General Mike Callan's kukri.
He also said that Rifleman with their issued kukri often went and got the scabbard covered in patent leather for parade, and purchased another for actual use.
Also Major Gerald Davies of the GM, said around 1950 the regs changed to allow the Gurkhas to carry their own kukri outside of Ceremonial and Parade duties etc. Also Major Gerald Davies was the one that pointed out the mistake that Jonathan had made about the so called private purchase Kothimora Kukri that a Bandsman was wearing, they were bought by the bands CO to brighten the Band up!
I hope that helps,

Interesting Simon,

Did Mr Davies elaborate on why this became vogue in the 50's?

Was it perhaps because of pressure from the riflemen of the units during the war years who did have to carry private purchase Kukri at one time or another?
Perhaps because non issue kukri couldn't be managed in absolute entirely in the war years?

Gav

Hello Gav,
Gurkha rifleman didn't carry private issue kukri in WW2 at all, and in WW1 (except GO's & BO's) information supplied from the following highly esteemed Gurkha and British Gurkha Officers, and Gurkha historians;

Authorative people;
1. Lt. Col. JP Cross British Gurkha Officer; WW2, Malaya and Borneo, Gurkha Historian and author, who was heavily involved in the book for British Gurkha Officers 'Nepal and the Gurkhas'.

2. Captain C. McCalla; WW2 British Gurkha Officer, who whilst out on patrol took pictures of of his men.

3. QGO Bakansing Gurung; joined in 1933 1/6 GR served in WW2
"That none of his contemporaries had ‘private kukri’, all carried issued kukri".

4. QGO Bhaktasing MC, served in WW2 "They have not taken their own village kukri to the regiment. He has not taken any his own kukri from Nepal.
As far he concerned those days the strong iron and better kukris are made in Dehradoon and Kunraghat by Nepali expert Ironsmith for the Gurkhas issued kukri"

5. Major Deny’s Drayton Gurkhas Officer; WW2, N.Africa and Italy

6. Major-General Mike Callan; WW2 Gurkha Officer

7. Col. Horsford; WW2 Gurkha Officer

8. Captain D Harding; post WW2 Gurkha Officer and regimental historian and archivist for 10th GR, and weapons expert for the Gurkha Museum in Winchester, and heavily involved in the book '10th Gurkha Rifles, One Hundred Years'

Major Gerald Davies (a specialist in Jungle Warfare) the Curator of the GM had this to say quote; 'Damaged issue kukris could be replaced through equipment exchange for free – however, numbers available for exchange were limited.
Varied between units, but in the 1950's tended to see changes to rules.'

Captain Curd; Captain R. V. W. Curd he mentions the ordering of kukri, “Part of my duties was to order replacement kukris from one of our officers stationed in Northern India whose job it was to buy them locally from makers in the area.” He aslo said this “The Gurkhas in Malaya at that time seemed to be wanting too frequent replacements for worn out knives"

I do not know the exact reason, so this is only supposition on my part, but I expect it was down to costing, or something like that, but as I say, no one has told me that was the reason, so that is guess work.

An interesting addendum to this thread comes from "The Lushai expedition"

Published in 1873 , Written by Lt. H.G. Woodthorpe of the Royal Engineers who served alongside the 44th Bengal infantry. { who went on through there linage to be the become the 8th Gurkha rifles eventualy.}

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...ps7f8098b8.jpg

In full context.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...psd1aa1302.jpg

Which when compared to the material published in this & the related closed thread are rather fascinating I think?

linky

{Which of coursr was closed quite correctly by are overworked unrewarded moderaters who perform such a thank less task day in or day out for no reward, due to the personal feelings clearly displayed within it. {Something that clearly shouldnt happen, within forum space...} {My apologies for that.}

Spiral

As a further addendum, one of my 3 top favorite 19th century Newspaper block prints of Goorkhas with kukri, {Which I bought, to frame & display alongside my kukri collection.} Its nearly 2ft wide & exhibits great skill in wood block engraving! Its a great picture to have! ;) {Digital copies can be found elswere on line, many original copied from my example. :eek: }

Is of the Lushai expedition...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...ps9c4b88f4.jpg


The 44th make up {not the 43rd. {mentioned in another thread.}which at that time was a seperate unit to the 44th... The clues in the number :D } are mentioned in the official Army "AG circular no. 117" dated 9th september 1864.

As quoted in "The Linages & Composition of Gurkha Regiments in British Service." {published by Gurkha museam.}

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...ps08394cab.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...psa1f1d8c7.jpg


So clearly a mostly Goorkha & Assam Hillmen based unit, would be highly skilled at sheltor building, rather than the 22nd Punjabis, who while usefull solders wouldnt be so used to such craft & work.

spiral

i note that the rifleman in the photo on the far left appears to be cheating by attempting to blow his bamboo stem in half with his rifle. sadly, by turning his head to avoid splinters, he appears to be about to shoot the bugler in the foot. ;) interesting photo.

:eek: :eek: :eek: ;) :D :)

spiral