Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   RAKSASA & Buta Bajang Figure Hilts (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10387)

ganjawulung 5th July 2009 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harimauhk
Nice hilts. I too don't know much about them, but having grown up around Hinduism (I'm Indian and Nepalese), I find Indonesian representations of figures from Hindu mythology fascinating. Just out of curiosity, does 'buta' mean ghost?

Not 'ghost', but 'giant'. In some (javanese) wayang stories, giants were not always gigantic in size. Only the form (appearance) is 'giant' like, but the size of the creature is told as -- sometimes even smaller than human being. "Buta Bajang" means "Dwarf giant"... Literally "buta" (javanese) means "giant". Unfortunately, in Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian language) "buta" means "blind"..

GANJAWULUNG

harimauhk 5th July 2009 12:27 PM

Ma kasih ganja, in Hindi, "bhut" means ghost, which is why I was curious.

David 5th July 2009 05:01 PM

Great thread, though i would like to point out that we had a very similar thread on these figurative hilts this past spring. It might not be a bad idea to merge the 2 threads just to have all this info in one place, but for now i will just provide a link. :)
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=raksasa

erikscollectables 5th July 2009 07:52 PM

favorites
 
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Yes my most favorite type as well.

The discussion last time (as mentioned by David) with good input from Alan was very interesting.
Also the krisdisk mentioned by Michael and of course the text by Martin Kerner on this theme is quite interesting (for those that read german..)

Erik

Battara 5th July 2009 11:45 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
I would like to thank you too, if you wish to share too, your pictures on such hilts. I believe, there are still more such hilts all around here...

Well this is the only rakshasha hilt I have - ivory, gold, and Balinese:

A. G. Maisey 6th July 2009 12:48 AM

Good idea David.

I'd forgotten that we'd been down this road before, if I'd remembered I would not have started walking along it again.

ganjawulung 8th July 2009 04:36 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV
My favourite kind of keris hilt!
In the late Karsten Sejr-Jensenīs book and CD there is an analysis of the mudra signs etc.

Here are some of mine.

Michael

Thanks, Michael, for showing "your avatar" in complete view.. Thanks a lot too, to Erik and David. These are more pictorial post of such hilts...

GANJAWULUNG

ganjawulung 8th July 2009 04:39 PM

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And more poses of this old model...

GANJAWULUNG

erikscollectables 8th July 2009 05:45 PM

Really great examples Ganjawulung!
Thanks for sharing!

I am always searching for these but really good ones are harder and harder to find...(at least here in Holland)

Erik

David 8th July 2009 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
And more poses of this old model...

Nicely carved fellow, but he doesn't look particularly old... :shrug:

ganjawulung 8th July 2009 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David
Nicely carved fellow, but he doesn't look particularly old... :shrug:

Old ones, David. But unfortunately, it was my fault to clean it too clean. It happened long time ago. So it (they) had lost the patina. Originaly they were so dirty and heavy patinated. I cleaned it with tooth-brush and detergent. And after it became so pale, then I put coconot oil.... But I will never do such silly thing again. Really, it is not new ones...

GANJAWULUNG

ganjawulung 8th July 2009 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikscollectables
Really great examples Ganjawulung!
Thanks for sharing!

I am always searching for these but really good ones are harder and harder to find...(at least here in Holland)

Erik

Difficult too to find in Jawa. All are gone somewhere in the world... I have couple in the past, but that was my fault. I cleaned the patinated hilts with tooth brush and soap. Never do like this, Erik...

GANJAWULUNG

Royston 8th July 2009 07:59 PM

A couple more
 
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These are my ones

Roy

Sajen 8th July 2009 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Old ones, David. But unfortunately, it was my fault to clean it too clean. It happened long time ago. So it (they) had lost the patina. Originaly they were so dirty and heavy patinated. I cleaned it with tooth-brush and detergent. And after it became so pale, then I put coconot oil.... But I will never do such silly thing again. Really, it is not new ones...

GANJAWULUNG

I don't know if this is have been a mistake, the fine carvings sometimes not to see when the handle have to much patination. Some of my handles I have cleaned also.

sajen

Sajen 8th July 2009 10:53 PM

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Some of my wooden handles I have shown in the other threat before.
Here three handles in ivory. Please apologize the bad quality of the photos, it have been a fast snapshot.

sajen

A. G. Maisey 9th July 2009 02:41 AM

Yeah, soap and water sounds a bit drastic.

I use a tooth brush and baby oil to clean really dirty hilts, and really, any other sort of carvings too.

The oil tends to soak into the gunk and soften it, and after you've revisited the carving a few times you'll normally have all the muck removed.

ganjawulung 9th July 2009 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
I use a tooth brush and baby oil to clean really dirty hilts, and really, any other sort of carvings too.

The oil tends to soak into the gunk and soften it, and after you've revisited the carving a few times you'll normally have all the muck removed.

Yes Alan, now I clean with very very soft tooth-brush only, and then soft clothes...

GANJAWULUNG

ganjawulung 9th July 2009 07:03 AM

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Dear Roy and Sajen,

Thanks for the sharing. And here are more on variations of the 'giant' creatures. A hilt of horn below. More looks like wayang figures...

GANJAWULUNG

ganjawulung 9th July 2009 07:09 AM

WAYANG hilt
 
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And this is probably the wayang hilt. Hopefully, to be older than Cirebon era. Or Pajajaran?

GANJAWULUNG

Sajen 9th July 2009 12:45 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
And this is probably the wayang hilt. Hopefully, to be older than Cirebon era. Or Pajajaran?

GANJAWULUNG

This hilt is similar to two I have shown in the other threat before. But I don't know how old this hilts. Here again the pictures.

sajen

ganjawulung 9th July 2009 04:47 PM

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Beautiful Wayang hilt, Sajen. I think it is the best I've seen until today...
These are more pictures on other variant of "Buta hilt"...

GANJAWULUNG

Sajen 9th July 2009 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Beautiful Wayang hilt, Sajen. I think it is the best I've seen until today...
These are more pictures on other variant of "Buta hilt"...

GANJAWULUNG


Thank you very much! But which one you mean? I show two different hilts. By one the Garuda munkur is pirced and by the other one not.

sajen

ganjawulung 10th July 2009 01:57 AM

Dear Sajen,
The one with Garuda Mungkur, of course. Not the craftmanship, but the originality. To see original old motifs, for me is more important than just seeing good craftmanship..

GANJAWULUNG

David 10th July 2009 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Dear Sajen,
The one with Garuda Mungkur, of course. Not the craftmanship, but the originality. To see original old motifs, for me is more important than just seeing good craftmanship..

Ganja, ion post #28 Sajen posted 2 different hilts. I believe that they both have a Garuda Mungkur.
:)

David 10th July 2009 02:31 AM

Meet the Twins!
 
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Well i finally had some time to photograph my few examples. Meet the twins. These two guys are so alike i think the same carver may have done them. One is and old Mojo keris in a gayaman sheath. The other an old kebo lajer in a ladrang sheath. :)

David 10th July 2009 02:36 AM

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This old-timer is well worn with a nice patina and beautiful flashing grain that flashes red at some points and some really nicely carved cut-through spots..

David 10th July 2009 02:42 AM

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This one is not so old, but has some real nice carving. I am not fully convinced that these floral figurative hilts are really of the same species as these other buta hilts. They seem to have a very different posture. But they are most often counted in with their crouching brothers so here is my example. :)

David 10th July 2009 02:48 AM

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Finally here's one i recently acquired which doesn't really belong here as it depicts a wayang character, not a rakassa/buta, but i'm going to throw it in just because i like it. :rolleyes: :D
Also i can't help but feel that these older buta forms were somewhat influenced by wayang forms. Some of the older raksasa shown in this thread definitely seem to have some wayang characteristics. :shrug: :)

erikscollectables 10th July 2009 02:17 PM

favorite
 
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This is probably my favorite figural hilt.
Might have been cleaned as well but not by me....
Very old - but still very good condition and relatively very large

Sajen 10th July 2009 02:46 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by erikscollectables
This is probably my favorite figural hilt.
Might have been cleaned as well but not by me....
Very old - but still very good condition and relatively very large

Hi Erik,

very nice hilt and you can see clearly it's age. A real patina you can't "clean" away.

Here is my favorite hilt of this type, also very old and from small size.

sajen

erikscollectables 10th July 2009 02:56 PM

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It is difficult not to get a bit jealous with all these great hilts in other collections than mine...Again great example!
And as I am testing my new camera anyway another favorite!


Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen
Hi Erik,

very nice hilt and you can see clearly it's age. A real patina you can't "clean" away.

Here is my favorite hilt of this type, also very old and from small size.

sajen


Sajen 10th July 2009 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikscollectables
It is difficult not to get a bit jealous with all these great hilts in other collections than mine...Again great example!
And as I am testing my new camera anyway another favorite!

Hello Erik,

test have been effective! And now I am a little bit jealous, this type in ivory I only have in very small size and not so nice like yours.

sajen

ganjawulung 10th July 2009 04:48 PM

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Hmmm, Erik and Sajen,

Jealous with you too. My 'dealer' friend from Yogya said, he had sent such a lot of hilts like this to Europe these recent months. Are you the one to send? (Just kidding..., please)

And these are more pictures of another variant of such 'raksasa', 'buta' or 'wayang hilt' whatever you call them...

GANJAWULUNG

Sajen 10th July 2009 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Hmmm, Erik and Sajen,

Jealous with you too. My 'dealer' friend from Yogya said, he had sent such a lot of hilts like this to Europe these recent months. Are you the one to send? (Just kidding..., please)

And these are more pictures of another variant of such 'raksasa', 'buta' or 'wayang hilt' whatever you call them...

GANJAWULUNG

Dear Pak Ganjawulung,

you don't need to be jealous, it seems that you have a never ending collection of this hilt form!

sajen

ganjawulung 10th July 2009 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David
Well i finally had some time to photograph my few examples. Meet the twins. These two guys are so alike i think the same carver may have done them. One is and old Mojo keris in a gayaman sheath. The other an old kebo lajer in a ladrang sheath. :)

Very fine twins. Where did you get these two butas from, David?

David 10th July 2009 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikscollectables
It is difficult not to get a bit jealous with all these great hilts in other collections than mine...Again great example!

C'mon Erik, you talk about jealousy and then saw us this ivory beauty. Jealousy is mine my friend! :D

David 10th July 2009 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Very fine twins. Where did you get these two butas from, David?

A certain Australian source. :)

Sajen 10th July 2009 07:08 PM

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Here is my small ivory handle of this type, very old but far away from the quality Erik show us.

sajen

Jussi M. 6th September 2010 10:41 PM

Up!

Jussi M. 20th February 2011 10:21 PM

Classic?

Thanks,

J.


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