Hello All.
I always assumed the extensions to the butt of these guns was related to either:

1) Balance when carried (possible counterwight to barrel),
2) Reloading with the butt placed on sandy/rugged ground ,
3) Possible use as a club.

Obviously over time the original function could have been forgotten and the feature have been maintained as something traditional.

Just a thought on the topic. Nice piece Markku, have a similar one.

#1 above is unlikely, as the barrel would be much heavier than the (added?)wooden pad.
#2 Why would a wooden pad be added to a wooden stock to avoid contamination by sand? The folds of the skin covering (often seen on these butts) would be more likely to harbor sand than a plain wooden stock.
#3 If the gun ended up being used as a club, the existing stock would be more than sufficient to knock a person out.
Certainly the original reason for the butt "pads" remains a mystery but I do not believe that the reason is any of the above ideas. Most likely as has been said in above posts, the butt is designed to "soften" the recoil, or is just a matter of taste.
Stu

Yes probably to soften the recoil as the rifle butt is otherwise fairly narrow (but why convex and not concave?). In addition I notice that these rifles don’t have slings attached to them. So the buttpads may also help to prevent the butt from sliding out from under the bend of the arm when riding a horse or camel?

Stu, in response to your points, (I see you have no doubt handled such pieces)
Point 1. The sizes of these additions vary. Either way the centre of balance would be shifted, which may or may not have been desired by the tribal users.
Point 2. If you look at the base of the stocks with the additions, they are often quite worn. Many examples are not fur covered.
Point 3. If you say so. Hard to know at this point.

'Taste' would here be a question of cultural norms related to weapons.

Elgood mentions absorbsion of recoil but does not elaborate, but it would be interesting to hear explanations from the tribal users of these weapons, or their decendants.

Your points may well be right, and I am not saying that you are wrong. Simply that this issue is a discussion point, from which (hopefully) a valid reason for these butt extensions will appear.
Yes I have owned in the past a couple of these guns but stupidly sold them in a weak moment :(
In answer to your comments, I agree that the sizes do vary BUT they are only made of wood and weigh next to nothing in comparison to the barrel. Yes some are worn but then many old gunstocks show signs of wear. I would guess that these get rougher treatment than (for instance) a European gun. As far as use as a "club" goes I certainly would not like to have one aimed at my head. As you say it's hard to tell but I would not like to be on the receiving end!
Stu

Thank you Stu.

Hi Victrix,
Not all Middle Eastern guns have sling attachment rings, but the subject gun and also others shown in this thread do have rings on the side for attachment of a sling or retaining strap.
Stu

The photo here shows the thick leather pads added to the butt sections. This, more than likely was to help reduce more severe recoil. Seems rather obvious.

It's the wood half-circle Arab alteration that is still a mystery to me. I just view it as a styling technique from tradition. Can't come up with a different reason.

Rick

Interesting. This shows the butt cap was an intentionally added feature.

Rick

Hi Bandook

I could not help but notice the wrap-around type decoration on the butt stock of your gun is almost identical to the butt stock of that duel ignition gun I posted.
Both Coorg guns.

Rick

Hi Colin

Item 2 you mention above is something I believe is often over-looked when studying these shoulder guns. With the exception of the thick, leather pads which would seem obvious to reduce recoil, the separate wood butt cap, whether Arab, Coorg, or even Ottoman leads me to believe you are correct. Should the gun be traded or sold, the user could change the Length of Pull (LOP) to accommodate a different shooter by just extending or shortening the butt cap. It's why I believe the Ottoman guns butt stocks were always made in two pieces.
It's also what makes these guns a bit difficult to shoot today. The LOP typically being between 11 and 12 inches. Whereas the European guns would be closer to 13 to 13.5 inches. Today's shooters average 14 inches.
And, as you mention, the grips on the tulwar swords are smaller than their European counterparts. Quite interesting.

Rick

To add to the interesting information and discussion above, here is Elgood's take on the Indo-Arab gun, from his book Firearms of the Islamic World (in the Tareq Rajab Museum, Kuwait).
Hope you find it of interest.
Stu

Thanks Stu. Most interesting. Glad I have this book.

Rick

Hi Stu

You may be interested to know that the middle gun you have illustrated (no. 125) now in the Kuwait Museum, was the one once owned by me. Bought in an antique shop in Abu Dhabi and which I foolishly sold later in the UK.

Colin

Oh! And I was just about to comment on the beauty that is no. 125...

Glad I am not the only one to regret selling stuff :o :o :o

Me too. LOL :(

Rick

Found this image from The National Museum of Yemen, Sana'a which might interest. Note the guns in the display case in the background...

Great pic Colin and thanks for posting. I wonder with the troubles in Yemen if the museum is still standing!
Interesting that all the long guns shown on display appear to have the butt "extension" which perhaps suggests that the feature COULD be typical only to that region. Certainly the Omani matchlock does not have the butt extension (see pic), and to my knowledge it is the only other type of matchlock peculiar to the Arabian Peninsula.
Stu

another one

Here two photos of Ottoman matchlocks in Istanbul.
The link is very clear to me...
:shrug:

Wonderful pics guys. And a very interesting Thread.

Rick

A question re the guns shown in the pic posted by KUBUR....... the 2 on the right certainly look to be Turkish as described by the museum item labels, as the butt shape looks typically from that region, however the one on the left is typical of the subject gun of this thread.........mislabeled???
Stu

Regarding the Arab style butt, years ago when these were often referred to as "Camel guns" I was told that they were often "tap loaded" from horse or camel back.
Tap loading is done without the use of a ramrod, powder and shot are put down the barrel and the butt then banged on the ground to force the load down to the breech. If the touch hole was large enough it would prime the pan as well, if it was a flintlock.
The large butt extension could make sense in these circumstances.

That’s very interesting. I can imagine the frustration on horse/camelback when fiddling with a ramrod and dropping it to the ground. Can see why “tap loading” might be a preferred method.

I have "tap loaded" back when I shot muzzle loaders and it is faster than ramming... but always a bit risky if you put a ball down there.

Napoleonic armies did it a lot to increase rate of fire, the record is 12 rounds in one minute by one of Wellingtons veterans.