ahem!
you dont have to be in your twenties to own an mp3 player.

.............do you? :confused:

Not much to worrry about, unless...
 

I will have to try to find that book; I agree with the viewpoint you have summarized. Take a look at the effort people will go to for imaginary items in games like World of Warcraft and the compulsive efforts pursuring the numerous quests in that game.

I am presently savoring my way through Philip K. Dick's The Man in the High Castle (1962) and some of his insights relevant to collecting and faking antiques.

I believe the thing for us to be concerned with is not a fading interest in what we collect, but the danger of legislative prohibitions upon these objects as weapons. The 2nd Amendment (thank you Founding Fathers) provides us some shielding in the USA, but some of our Australian comrade's collections may well be in peril.

... gtg ... WoW servers should now be back up... :)

I never understood the fact, why would be owning an antique, not sharp katana submissed to prohibitions when you can buy a lot cheaper chainsaw in the next hardware store... Let's gonna left to the court experst to say wich can make more damage to fellow citizens.. nosense... :confused:

I just do not understand this moral panic about antique weapon collecting, the weapons available at any DIY store or garden center are many. Like religion the weapon is harmless it is the person behind it that is dangerous. Tim.

I read a cool passage in a biography of an ancestor of mine, Nathaniel Bowditch (mathematician, navigator, and a Salem ship captain in the spice trade in the late 18th C), about his first visit to Java. I should look up the port, etc., but he noticed that every one of the workers who came out in little boats to load pepper onto his ship had a keris stuck in the back of his waistband. This caused him some concern, so he insisted that only one boat be allowed to unload onto his ship at a time, and no more than three Malay be allowed on board at one time. Such was the reputation of Malay pirates at the time. The port folks were severely aggrevated, but he kept firm (basically said "there is pepper at the next port, so do it my way or get out of my way") and everything went smoothly. He was hardly a Russel Crowe swashbuckler -- quite a little egg-head, actually -- which makes the story all the more amusing.

"ETHINOGRAPHIC ART" WILL ALWAYS HAVE WORTH AS LONG AS THERE ARE GALLERIES AND AUCTIONS SUCH AS SOUTHBYS AND CHRISTIES AND ANTIQUE ROADSHOW. MUCH IF NOT MOST OF THEIR SALES ARE FOR INVESTMENT POTENTIAL NOT JUST TO COLLECT BECAUSE YOU ARE INTERESTED AND LOVE THAT KIND OF STUFF.
THE ITEMS OFTEN BECOME VALUABLE BECAUSE THE CULTURES WHO PRODUCED THEM ARE EITHER GONE OR DON'T MAKE THINGS NEAR THE QUALITY AS THE OLD ORIGINAL ITEMS. LESS EXAMPLES OF A TYPE OF ITEM LEADS TO HIGHER PRICES DUE TO ITS RARITY SO WELL CRAFTED EXAMPLES SHOULD CONTINUE TO INCREASE.
COLLECTORS OF EDGED WEAPONS ARE ODDBALLS COMPARED TO MOST OF THE VERY NUMEROUS REDNECK CULTURE WHO ONLY DISCUSS,SPORTS,WOMEN,POWER TOOLS, CARS, TV PROGRAMS, FISHIN AND HUNTING :eek: BUT EVEN THEY OFTEN COLLECT FISHING LURES,GUNS, TOOLS AND SPORTS RELATED STUFF SO I GUESS THEY AREN'T ALL THAT DIFFERENT FROM US AFTER ALL :confused: WE ARE A SMALL MINORITY AS FAR AS COLLECTING GOES, THERE ARE MANY MORE STAMP AND COIN COLLECTORS EVEN ROCK AND FOSSIL COLLECTORS OUTNUMBER US. THATS GOOD AS IT LEAVES MORE STUFF FOR EACH OF US :D BUT AS THE POPULATION CONTINUES TO INCREASE I AM SURE THERE WILL BE PLENTY OF NEW COLLECTORS TO REPLACE US WHEN THEY GET BITTEN BY THE SAME BUG THAT BIT US. WITH THE INTERNET WE WILL ALSO HAVE THE ADVANTAGE OF SELLING TO THE ENTIRE WORLD INSTEAD OF TO THE ONE WEIRD KID AT THE LOCAL GUN SHOW SO OUR POSSIBILITYS OF PASSING ON OUR COLLECTIONS ARE BETTER THAN IN THE PAST.

I don't believe religeon plays a direct role behind the fundamentalist-extremists' politcal view and agenda. But what I do believe is religeons do give these people the courage and strength to carry out their evil, personal, political agenda. So it gives them the strength and courage to do, what they think, any violent demonstrations that is necessary.

I would agree there, but I must say I was not necessarily thinking of acts of violence, we digress and the gods will be upon us. Tim

Indeed they will . :cool:

Ahem
 

And .... we will end the little digression into theology RIGHT THERE, please. In the words of Bartok the bat, "It will only end in tears." :)

http://www.foxhome.com/anastasia/cha...artokframe.jpg

I'm not as subtle as Rick. ;)

My Experience...
 

It has been my experience in collecting that:

1. I start collecting…
2. It starts to catch on… the “I want one too” factor.
3. More become available, but the prices start to go up.
4. Reproductions find their way into the market place.
5. Prices end up “through the roof,” it becomes difficult to find good stuff.
6. Reproduction are good or better than the originals.
7. Its time to change fields for what I collect because of the fakes and the super high prices.

I have “cycled” through WWI, WWII, Vietnam and Soviet period militaria. I believe you will all find the above “cycle” has been true for all of these. Personally, I believe it will also be true for edged weapons. Dig in and hold on. You will not see this stuff again. If the prices go down (yea right), I am sure there are a number of us that will be happy to pick them up from you. :D :D :D

If we want to continue to generate interest in our hobby we have to work on getting information out into the public. Unfortunately, there are very few venues dedicated to ethnographic weapon. Every so often we see a stray magazine article, and there are usually a few examples described in a dozen or so words scattered around major museums. But, we do not have a systematic voice, nor a media mechanism which would be attractive to non-collectors.

This is an example of what we should try to pull together.

http://www.museumofwebism.com/3DGalleryTest/index.htm

Imagine a virtual museum dedicated to the study of ethnographic weapons that can be accessible to collectors all around the net and which is populated with many thousands of examples cataloged into dozens of exhibition halls. Such would be the new Stone glossary for the 21th century. Perhaps we should build such a thing and call it the Cameron Stone Museum of Ethnographic Weapondry in his honor.

n2s

Tell me again exactly why i might want to generate interest in others in my hobby? Frankly i find there is quite enough competition for the weapons i collect. There will always be a percentage of the population with an interest in antique edged weapons, it is a part of our human nature to study such things. I don't think we need to create the interest or attempt to turm non-collectors into collectors. Personally, i don't collect keris as a monetary investment (ssshhh! that's not what i tell the wife! ;) ), but for my own personal enjoyment, study and (hopefully) understanding. Sure, it's nice to share in discussion and debate (thank you very much Vikingsword) and if i had children i am sure i would try to interest them in my passion. From time to time i encounter a friend who shares my interest. I think that as i age i will continue to encounter interested younger parties that i feel understand the keris enough to properly care for them and i very possibly might pass some blades along to these folks. I don't plan to have children so the people who recieve these keris will not just be getting an inheritance that that might simply sell off, but something they will prize and want to own. When i go i might very well bequeath the bulk of my collection to a museum (but they have to promise not to paint those little white numbers on them :D ).

For one thing; there are probably dozens of examples of whatever you collect which were just ground down today to make a nice set of tent pegs for someone. The more we inform the more people come to appreciate the historical artifacts around them. Even if they don't persoanlly collect they would know enough to salvage and value some of these relics of the past.

For another; from shared experience comes shared learning. There is much we wish that we knew which will never come to light unless we have the ability to study a great many examples. While a virtual museum is not like having the items at hand; we can learn quite a bit to help us better date and catagorize these items. If we have a dozen sword which are similar enough to deduce that they were likely made by the same hands, and one turns up with a pedegree, then the whole lot benefits from that shared piece of infomation.

(btw - virtual museums will probably never ask you to add those little white numbers :rolleyes: )

n2s

n2s, i certainly wasn't arguing against your virtual museum idea, though i don't believe it will create new collectors or inform anyone who might choose to turn some keris into a "nice set of tent pegs". :eek: Why would such people bother to look at such a site. To find things like that on the internet you need to have at least enough interest to search it out. My point is that there are and probably always will be a precentage of people interested in this subject. They will continue to collect and find ways to talk about it with others (like your proposed site). But i don't feel the need to inform Joe Beerbottle that that old knife his uncle left him is a courtier's keris from the Mataram kingdom of Java. He is uninterested, not stupid, so he doesn't throw it away, he puts it up on ebay (the worlds marketplace). To him it's old junk that somebody might want. I am fine with him continuing to see it that way. I don't feel any great need to educate him. Now Jimmy Coolkife ( :rolleyes: ) Runs across an old keris in the attic that used to belong to grandpa. Old knives interest him so he does a little internet searching. Maybe he ends up at your virtual museum (or here :) ). I am more than happy to share experience with him and help him work out what he has. But i didn't have to create his interest, it was already there. And believe me, there are quite enough interested parties out there as can be proved by the number of times i've been beat at the auction block. :D
I say start up you virtual museum and i am sure others will join. I would probably get involved myself somewhere along the line. Still, while your vitual museum might not put little white numbers on my blades, it still doesn't solve the original question of this thread, which is what will happen to my PHYSICAL collection when i go. Those were the issues i was addressing.

Whoa, that's an old film! But to watch it, I've have to get a VHS player... Chucked the player about 10yrs ago... :D

Well, not really... but 90% are in their twenties, if not teens. :)

We have a rudimentary virtual keris museum already!! :)

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

And there are a few sites out there dedicated to Javanese kerises.

What happens to our physical collection depends on what we do -- we can leave it to rust, stowed away in the basement, forgotten. Or we could leave it to the 'mercy' of our children. Or we could donate them to the museum. Or we could find good 'homes' for them before we get too old. :)

A point I've always wanted to make is -- don't donate collections to the museum. What goes in seldom comes out (not the decent ones anyway), and no matter how well they are conserved, they are still confined to a 'storeroom' most of the time. I believe that there should good pieces out there, for the responsible and knowledgeable collectors to enjoy and care for.

I AGREE THAT THE INTREST IS ALREADY THERE FOR YOU TO BECOME A COLLECTOR IT JUST NEEDS TO BE STIRRED BY SEEING SOMETHING COOL OR INTERESTING. IT WOULD BE SIMPLE TO INCREASE THE PRICE AND DEMAND FOR EDGED WEAPONS BUT NOT THE NUMBER OF REAL COLLECTORS. JUST HAVE A ANTIQUE ROADSHOW AND HAVE LOTS OF PEOPLE WITH SOME TYPE OF EDGED WEAPONS AND SAY THEY ALL FOUND THEM IN ATTICS, GARAGE SALES OR ESTATE SALES AND PAYED $10.00 FOR IT ,THE EXPERT THEN SAYS THIS IS A BLAH BLAH BLAH AND IS WORTH $100000.00 :eek:

THE BUY IT SELL IT GROUP WHICH VASTLY OUTNUMBER COLLECTORS WOULD SCOUR EVERY NOOK AND CRANNY IN THE COUNTRY, BIDDING WOULD GO CRAZYIER ON EBAY. THEN WOULD BE THE SMART TIME TO SELL OUT OUR COLLECTIONS BUT WHO EVER SAID A TRUE COLLECTOR WAS SMART ENOUGH TO LIKE MONEY MORE THAN HIS COLLECTION :D

THE IDEA OF A VIRTUAL STONES GLOSSARY IS A GOOD ONE AND WAS BROUGHT UP IN THE OLD FORUM POSTS IT MAY HAVE BEEN ONE I STARTED EARLY ON IF YOU WANT TO FIND IT USING THE SEARCH FUNCTION. I THINK CONOGRE WAS GATHERING PICTURES AND INFORMATION ALSO. THERE IS ENOUGH INFORMATION HERE IN THE VIKINGSWORD POSTS TO COMPILE QUITE A LARGE GLOSSARY IF SOMEONE WOULD TAKE ON THE MONUMENTAL TASK OF ORGANIZING IT. THE MEMBERS HERE COULD ALSO ADD MORE TO IT IF NECESSARY I HAVE BEEN COLLECTING INFORMATION FOR YEARS AND AM SURE OTHERS HAVE AS WELL. LARGE DEALERS LIKE ORIENTAL ARMS ARE SURE TO HAVE MORE REFRENCES AND KNOWLEGE THAN ONE WHO JUST COLLECTS, SO THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO SUPPLY SOME INFORMATION AS TIME WOULD PERMIT. THE BIG ADVANTAGE OF THE INTERNET FORMAT OVER A BOOK IS THAT YOU CAN CONTINUE TO ADD TO THE INFORMATION AND ALSO CORRECT ANY MISTAKES IF BETTER INFORMATION COMES ALONG LATER.

For better Or Worse
 

I'm fairly convinced that this forum itself is a contributing force to driving up prices in most antique weapon selling venues .

Alas Kai Wee, i tend to agree and i guess i am just hoping and praying that i might come across that different, more caring museum space before i go. Probably not likely. But perhaps there is a museum with an arms section out there that is sore in need of a keris display. You never know. Doing my best to find "good homes" for them is probably my main option. That means someone who respects a certain amount of tradition and is willing to periodically oil and cense the keris and be willing to find someone after them to do the same in turn. In a sense, to treat the keris like pusaka. Difficult i know, in this day and age, but not impossible. :)

All right everyone....now stop that, stop it right now! :D

Yes, and after a while, collectors will tend to home in on the same sort of pieces that were discussed and shared here... Not good, not good... :D

Move along, nothing to see here... :D

In, the interest of protecting advantageous pricing, this forum should be re-focus to the discussion of ethnographic toilet seats.

http://i9.ebayimg.com/04/i/06/67/7a/31_12.JPG

Now here we have a fine 19th century example from New England..... :eek:

n2s

n2s
 

No fair !
I was drinking coffee ........... :eek:

You owe me a new keyboard .

LOL!!! Best laugh i've had all day.....you know, that's a nice seat, i want one! $$$$$$ :rolleyes:

Now That We've Had Our Giggles ....
 

How does this bill currently before my state legislators strike you ?

http://www.mass.gov/legis/bills/senate/st01/st01384.htm

Hmmm ?

I am a collector to so please do not get me wrong but to brazenly sport weapons in a civilised urban environment you deserve all the trouble you get. I do not go shopping for bread and milk brandishing a Khyber knife and I do not make my home at night with my parang. The bill does not outlaw the possession of a machete it just requires the appropriate common sense about the use and display in public. This is something we collectors usually do naturally and we are unlikely to feel the force of the law. Unfortunately there have been headline grabbing incidents where idiots cause problems. I can think of parallels in other aspects of society but they get away with it. Tim

Chip , chip , chip ............

I see nothing in the bill relating to brazenly sporting weapons .

I do see a wide open definition of 'machete' .

I also see an attempt to register a bladed device .

Not to mention of course a ahem , yearly *registration fee* .