Ethnographic Arms & Armour
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-   -   Gunong with missing pommel (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15927)

kai 10th September 2012 09:04 PM
Quote:
makes me think; was it seacow- or 'dugong'-teeth they used or perhaps whaletooth for the ivoryhandle. Am not sure if seacows do/did live in the Phill's and if whaletooth ever stranded there (never heard/seen myself).
No need to wait for a stranding: Both, dugong and sperm whale were hunted all over the archipelago.

Regards,
Kai

kai 10th September 2012 09:47 PM
Quote:
Wow, are there really documented cases of hippo ivory being used as gunong handles? There are no native hippopotamus anywhere in Asia, so the closest source would be East Africa. Wouldn't that make it the 'Unobtanium' of the times back then? Or was exclusivity exactly the point?
Hippo ivory is very commonly seen with Sumatran/Malay keris hilts as well as other objects. There was very intense and ancient sea trade between East Africa (trading port for much of sub-saharan Africa) and SE Asia; from the examples I've seen, I don't think it was regarded more highly than elephant ivory.

I'm not certain having seen any Moro blade with hippo fittings but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Regards,
Kai

Sajen 10th September 2012 11:17 PM
4 Attachment(s)
At first here some better pictures by daylight.

Sajen 10th September 2012 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Personally i think you would be wasting the ivory on this piece....and while some of those bands might well be Moro they still look to me like a mismatched grouping that were not originally together on a single hilt. :shrug:

Hi David,

I am as well still uncertain which material I shall use for the pommel. But I am sure that the fittings are made for this blade but if they are old as the blade is a other question. And it is maybe more difficult to find banati wood than ivory of which sort ever. :shrug:

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen 10th September 2012 11:32 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara
Thanks Sajen for reminding me. Maybe is the operative word. The filigree work could be Sulu or Mindanao. Seen both. If solid silver could be Sulu, though recently I think I have seen Mindanao pieces like that as well. Certainly if plated it is definitely Mindanao.

I do wonder if the scabbard is an even later replacement for this piece. Dimensions seem a little bit larger than needed for the guard.

Tough to evaluate.
Hello Jose,

it is certainly solid silver. You could be correct that the scabbard is a later replacement, the fit look strange to me as well. But the length is correct for the blade and the blade fit well inside the scabbard. Otherwise it look strange from up, see picture.

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen 10th September 2012 11:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Koch
Cool knife - looking forward to the repair!

All the best, - Thor
Thank you Thor, will keep you informed at this place.

Regards,

Detlef

David 11th September 2012 03:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
But I am sure that the fittings are made for this blade but if they are old as the blade is a other question.
Can you explain to me why you are so sure of this. What i see are 4 bands of rather different styles and techniques that seem to be made of 4 completely different qualities of silver. Each has a completely different pattern and they don't see to compliment each other. Not something i can remember seeing on any complete pieces i have seen. What am i missing here? :shrug:

Sajen 12th September 2012 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Can you explain to me why you are so sure of this. What i see are 4 bands of rather different styles and techniques that seem to be made of 4 completely different qualities of silver. Each has a completely different pattern and they don't see to compliment each other. Not something i can remember seeing on any complete pieces i have seen. What am i missing here? :shrug:

Hi David,

no different quality of the silver, some are cleaned chemically by the jeweller while others are polished by hand so the different look. The silver is tested BTW. The strange look of the comlete dagger I mentioned already by my first post to this dagger. I am sure that the fittings are made for the blade because all have a oval cross section, nothing I have seen before by a gunong. All other I have and have seen are round in cross section. So I am sure that all parts of the bands are special made for this piece. If all made at the same time or a addition at a later time because something was broken I can't say of course.

Regards,

Detlef

David 12th September 2012 03:37 PM
OK Detlef, but i have never seen such a mismatching of pattern, design and technique used on silver work for a gunong hilt before. I think we will just have to agree to disagree... :)

Sajen 12th September 2012 05:18 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by David
OK Detlef, but i have never seen such a mismatching of pattern, design and technique used on silver work for a gunong hilt before. I think we will just have to agree to disagree... :)
Hi David,

maybe we have to agree at this point! :D ;)
But have again a look to this picture from the seller, IMHO it isn't so missmatching but very worn and like I think very unusal.

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen 20th April 2013 12:59 PM
2 Attachment(s)
Have received two pictures from my friend who have carved the new handle for the gunong. Just want to share with you. What do you think?

Battara 20th April 2013 03:43 PM
Nice hilt work.

Sajen 20th April 2013 11:14 PM
Thank you Jose, I am also pleased by the result. :)

Regards,

Detlef


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